To wonder how people make it to adulthood without knowing

[Staffy1]

That a Christmas tree decoration is called a "bauble", not "ball ball"? Or how they make it through junior school without knowing the difference between "his" and "he's"? What happens in schools these days and don't people ever read anything?

I just wish people instead of complaining about "damn autocorrect" would just switch off their autocorrect. Not only does it change words to something completely different (and it's a bugger to use if you occasionally write in other languages than English) it will also correct to wrong uses if you've mis-written something a few times in a row. (So if you've written definately once or twice, then it will henceforth change it to that even if you spell it correctly.)

@CheetasOnFajitas, but obvious might be one of the worst words to use as a filler. As it's a pet hate of mine, I've hear obviously used correctly once in the last five years. Which is still better than 'unique' and 'beg the question' neither of which I've heard used correctly at all. I know there is an argument that common use of the incorrect form will make the popular use of 'beg the question' correct.

@JovialNickname

There was a lady on the employment board the other day who described her new job as a poisoned carrot.

This is brilliant

My favourite is: We'll burn that bridge when we come to it.
In defense, it was a 9 year old saying it. He knows better now, but it stuck with our family :)

Reading definitely helps but I believe that some people are better at spelling words because they are visual learners.

@lazylinguist

That's really interesting, thank you. I hadn't thought about it being unusual to put an adjective after a noun, but now you mention that, I think I probably do that quite a bit because it's the way my mum/grandparents speak. I could be wrong, but I think in Welsh you do it more, and they're English-speaking Welsh.

You actually use adjectives straight after the noun with no verb when you're speaking English? That's really interesting, especiallyif it's a carry-over from Welsh! Can you give me an example of a sentence where you'd do that? I'm fascinated.

I'd definitely use the structure you cite with 'he declared the plate empty'. Nobody says that, obviously, but I'd say 'I needed that empty' or 'I needed that full'. All the time. Or 'I wanted the oven hot'/ 'I asked for that plate cold'.

I really don't know if it actually is a carry-over from the Welsh; I'm just speculating. What I definitely do notice when I think about it, is that it's a sentence structure my mum's parents would use a lot, and my mum too, so it might be that.

Oh, and I just said to DD 'I told you to come down dressed!' She's come down naked (she is three). I know I have 'down' in there, but I think it's the same structure?

@lazylinguist

If you saw someone making a glaring and dangerous mistake, would you shout "You're doing it wrong!" or "You're doing it wrongly!"? I know which I'd say. And I'd write it that way too.

I think I'd yell 'Stop!' in that instance.

Della1, do you think in terms of 'visual' learning? I thought that 'types of learning' had been discredited though perhaps I was wrong or it has been revalidated with new research?

I recently realised some people have no visual memory at all (which I know is different to learning preferences but still surprised me).,

Or am I misunderstanding, and you only want examples where there's literally nothing in between the words, rather than when the adjective comes after?

Ex takes the piss out of me for correcting the children's spoken English. He really is not helping.

@Della1

Reading definitely helps but I believe that some people are better at spelling words because they are visual learners.

I agree with this. I recently found a diary from when I was 5/6. There wasn’t a single spelling mistake. Once I’ve seen a word written down, I know how to spell it. DD1 is exactly the same, she could read at 3 and now at 7 she rarely ever makes a spelling mistake. She’s never used phonics. It’s just the way we learn. DD2 is completely different and her spelling is entirely phonetic (she’s 5). I find it really interesting!

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but I’ve noticed on mumsnet lots of people write draws instead of drawers!

I can only really learn something when it is written down/I have made notes. My auditory memory is rubbish. I revised for exams when I was younger by writing notes in different colours and then could recount quotes etc from memory. If I see a word, I can remember how to spell it. I’m not sure if different types of learning styles has been disproved but I really do know that this is why I have always been ok at spellings.

@Della1

I can only really learn something when it is written down/I have made notes. My auditory memory is rubbish. I revised for exams when I was younger by writing notes in different colours and then could recount quotes etc from memory. If I see a word, I can remember how to spell it. I’m not sure if different types of learning styles has been disproved but I really do know that this is why I have always been ok at spellings.

I did exactly the same thing! In exams I used to picture the words on the page of my revision notes. It was the only way I could recall the information. I did a law degree and had to remember 100’s of cases, including the case name, the judge and the key information. I had to write each case name in a different colour then picture it on the paper.

I'm an ex journalist. Now I work in school admin

I've had to respell focus from focussed and gauge from gage today.
I've had to pop comma's in hundreds of fronted adverbials too.

I never knew they were called fronted adverbials as a journalist (I do now as a parent) but I did know when a comma was required.

So we are teaching our children these rules but it's a shame because their teachers weren't taught it and don't use it

“Comma’s” @chuffedasbuttons?

And not sure what you mean by “respell focus from focussed?” Focused and focussed are both acceptable variants.

@CheetasOnFajitas they are but one is Americanised and I'm English.

@lazylinguist

but when you buy a box of baubles, it will say 'baubles' on it plain as day. The penny should drop then really!

No, lots of people find spellings hard to retain, or to notice unless they are really concentrating on them (which you don't tend to be every time you look at anything with writing on). An adult going about their business is unlikely to be looking for opportunities to correct their spelling deficiencies every 5 minutes.

People are very snooty about poor language skills in a way that they don't tend to be about weaknesses in other areas. Yes, language might be more important than a lot of other things, but that doesn't automatically make more people good at it. Nobody would choose to have poor language skills.

This I am not sure about. You pick up a box, look at it. It's impossible not to notice what it says on it surely? It's not about having to make an effort to do it, it's right there. The best memory techniques are all about associating words to objects etc so one would think shopping and seeing the word written on the package of the object is an ideal way to help the memory absorb it with minimal effort.

As for being snooty about it, I disagree. Language is important and if we become sloppy then the quality of communication and understanding degrades, which undermines the purpose of language. And language has been the single most important factor in the ability of humans to develop society, thought, literature, science, everything that we all enjoy, being lucky enough to live at this time.

I often make mistakes typing fast, but typos are different to illiteracy. I do believe some people do choose it. I saw them do so at school: they refused to study or read, refused to try, didn't listen, and generally reduced the quality of education for everyone else because they were so disruptive and believed it was "cool" to be ignorant. I do think that (with some parts of society) these attitudes are present still unfortunately.

@CheetasOnFajitas and the commas is a bog standard useless Americanised Iphone autocorrect as well you know

@chuffedasbuttons

I'm an ex journalist. Now I work in school admin

I've had to respell focus from focussed and gauge from gage today.
I've had to pop comma's in hundreds of fronted adverbials too.

I never knew they were called fronted adverbials as a journalist (I do now as a parent) but I did know when a comma was required.

So we are teaching our children these rules but it's a shame because their teachers weren't taught it and don't use it

Well, this wasnt the best example...

@DianeChambers

See above. Uber criticism at its best I see.

[quote chuffedasbuttons]@CheetasOnFajitas they are but one is Americanised and I'm English. [/quote]
and the commas is a bog standard useless Americanised Iphone autocorrect as well you know

@chuffedasbuttons what are you talking about? “Comma’s” is not Americanised, it’s just wrong. I have written “commas” now and my autocorrect is not offering up “comma’s”. Americans don’t pluralise with an apostrophe.

And “focussed” is British and Australian, not American.

Why would it be in autocorrect?

Facepalm.
iPhones are AMERICAN inventions and their autocorrect grammar is appalling.
Focused is similar to using a z instead of s in words such as visualisation

Americans spell it differently. Our technology is entrenched with Americanisms making it all the more difficult for the less educated to know what 'proper' English ought to be.

Please do continue with your somewhat unkind and unnecessary policing. I'm sure it brings you joy.

@SirGawain

This thread puts me in mind of those who think punctuation is unneccessary. Try this example: "Lets eat Grandma"; instead of "Let's eat, Grandma".

The use of correct spacing and capitalisation is also important. For example:

There's a maypole dancer.

Theresa May, pole dancer.