Really very sad with France!

[Friendsoftheearth]

I am quietly furious with France. We have been going to France between three and four times a year, every year for pretty much all of my adult life. We have spent most summer holidays, skiing and all the rest, choosing France as our destination over all over countries.

Every week I buy French cheeses, wine and truffle oils, and we are very big fans of France and French cuisine.

Even taking into account that Macron should hope and push for the best deal for their fishing industry, I still find it incredulous and insulting that they should be demanding ten years of fish, and are offering us a paltry percentage. Ten years.
They are in a total stand off regarding an even playing field, I understand the reasons for this, but honestly they are pushing all of us to a no deal outcome, that will see French fisherman with no catch whatsoever, and high tariffs slapped on all imports from France. Tourism will be destroyed as people will no longer wish to go there. It could poison relations for decades.

I am aware of the history between the UK and France, but rather naively thought we had moved on from that a very long time ago, I am in despair at the eleventh hour demands, and feel this is in very bad faith. It has really highlighted to me how little respect France have for us as a country.

I feel like I never want to go again, despite having a tentative booking for a holiday in the spring of next year.

You're in despair, really?

If serious people had done this experiment competently, they would have a practical plan to manage the tensions between the Single Market and Divergence, fishing rights and other dimension and negotiated to deliver it. Any evidence?

Agree with PP who say the UK were surprised the EU have a united front with Ireland.

Farmers will be completely shafted. I wonder how the SPAD will spin that as the EU's fault?

Every time I read and hear 'Australian deal', I think Syria/Yemen/Venezuela (need to check if any of those will have better access than WTO).

And breathe.

Perhaps the government should have investigated all of this before rushibg headlong into triggering Article 50 so that when it was triggered they would have at least some semblance of a plan. Instead they've blundered around like a bunch of dickheads, chopping and changing leaders, throwing elections like confetti, and proving ti be utterly ignorant of both internal geography and international law. We are a global laughing stock.

Why did nobody tell me this is how it works? My Dsis and I sold our late mother's house last year. I'm going to tell her we should ask for it back.

Brexit was always bad idea, unfortunately, because it was so risky.

The French are not morally obliged to take our side. If they think it is in their interests to veto, that's the power we willingly gave them.

I'm sure they will weigh up the risks of offending tourists along with all their other political considerations.

Given that WTO tariffs on wine are just a few pence per bottle, I don’t think anyone needs to give that up come Jan 1st.

It will at least wash down the mackerel, Stilton and turnips.

@TriflePudding

Something that you always see on these threads is the inevitable posters who come on to say “we left the EU so we deserve to be left high and dry, I don’t blame the EU for shafting the UK” but these posters completely lack the self awareness to realise that what they are saying is - “if you don’t think the way that I do or have the same values as me then you deserve to be shafted over” That kind of thinking is never going to end well.

Actually, what we are saying is that we acknowledge the reality of the situation. Now, you go and ride off on your unicorn.

Well all of this was entirely predictable but we are not allowed to say I told you so. Why are we expecting other countries to put our needs above their own?

I really couldn’t care less about fish. It’s like 1% of our economy.

There are loads of fantastic British cheeses out there. Expand your horizons!

@FoxyTheFox

Perhaps the government should have investigated all of this before rushibg headlong into triggering Article 50 so that when it was triggered they would have at least some semblance of a plan. Instead they've blundered around like a bunch of dickheads, chopping and changing leaders, throwing elections like confetti, and proving ti be utterly ignorant of both internal geography and international law. We are a global laughing stock.

Hard to argue with any of this. Depressing.

Oh, and fishing is 0.1% of our economy.

A small minority of the people who voted asked for Brexit isn't quite the same as the majority of people asked for Brexit . Of them, a significant percentage may have voted on the basis of untruths.

Maybes is a certain Brexit supporting MEP had ever turned up for work , they would have been more aware of the contentious nature of the fishing problem

@Europilgrim

But the EU had already agreed a deal. We decided to renegotiate!

Don't you see the ridiculousness of that statement?

It doesn't matter whether your are a Remainer or Brexiteer it is blindingly obvious now that neither side has ever acted in good faith, never brought a mutually agreeable deal to any table.

The EU has been Big Boss and won't be brooked. Can't see that no matter what it likes to say each individual member state WILL be damaged by the UK leaving and will feel the financial and political impact.

UK has puffed up its litle chest and trutted round like a bantam cock. Refusing to accept it has a weaker bargaining position and insisting on getting everything back to pre- EU days (almost!)

Given all the history of how the UK did, did not, did become part of the EU that's hardly surprising from any perspective!

But to hold that either side has the right, or wrong of anything is ridiculous. That's where politics is supposed to be a bloody help! Compromise and mutual benefit not grandstanding and bluster!

Nobody has looked good during all of this! Nobody has worked for the benefit of all... mainly because nobody involved in the negotiations in the early stages actually accepted that the UK was leaving the EU! So much time was wasted in the flummery, so many people became so entrenched that nobody, private individual or public person, stopped and reset, started to work towards a Brexit that would do the least harm for all!

And now it is almost too late!

@TriflePudding

Something that you always see on these threads is the inevitable posters who come on to say “we left the EU so we deserve to be left high and dry, I don’t blame the EU for shafting the UK” but these posters completely lack the self awareness to realise that what they are saying is - “if you don’t think the way that I do or have the same values as me then you deserve to be shafted over” That kind of thinking is never going to end well.

I dont think we should be left high and dry. It is dreadful, and I am sure it will affect the posters who voted remain as much as those who voted leave. Its not like they can say "Oh no, I get to skip the recession because Im a remainer". I just think getting angry at the French for looking out for French interests is a bit silly, the same as the idea that they will all work it out and give us everything we want and that Boris promised we could get in 2016.

So much time was wasted in the flummery, so many people became so entrenched that nobody, private individual or public person, stopped and reset, started to work towards a Brexit that would do the least harm for all!

The UK was stuffed as soon as Treesa told everyone we were leaving the CU and SM. The rest has been inevitable.

Still, unless the EU and UK agree about EHIC, travel for people with chronic and pre-existing health conditions will get interesting. Expect more GoFundMe appeals to get people home.

I wonder how many of the the millions of expats will have to come home for a range of reasons and congratulate the Conservative's?

Where did Rees Mogg's fund partly relocate?

AAArgh.

@Friendsoftheearth

This is not a thread to rehash the old sides of the ref, but a stock take on where we are today.

The waters belong to the UK, so the fishing rights will no longer be set by the EU but by the UK.

I am noting Spain and Italy and a few others are also part of this, the EU seems to have split into two.

The EU is not split, there is no dissent. France is just voicing the opinions of the 27. You are delusional.

The original post should have been "Do you know who I am?". And that would have summarised your position.
This is our generation's Suez crisis (google it) where we find out we aren't all that. Hopefully the younger generation will pull us out of this swallow dive into shit and we'll be worth something again. But that'll take years.

@SionnachRua

Totally get your point. Would go back and edit if I could. Sorry for any offence.

@SionnachRua - love your username.

The UK was stuffed as soon as Treesa told everyone we were leaving the CU and SM. The rest has been inevitable. Ayup!

[quote AnneTwacky]@SionnachRua

Totally get your point. Would go back and edit if I could. Sorry for any offence.[/quote]
No offence taken my friend, just something I point out when I see as I think many don't know about the Eire/Ireland issue. Tbf I find most using Eire are trying to be respectful, it just has unfortunate connotations. Hope you have a great day

Don’t you think the Europeans have plenty to feel insulted about? This is a British made mess, not the fault of France

Brexit is absolutely in some parties interests and I expect they have and will reward the actors who delivered it on their behalf. The rest can see this as an exercise in power and influence.

And they are perfectly happy to throw the Irish under a bus by forcing a no deal result. So much for EU solidarity.

UK voices sovereignty = good
France voices sovereignty (despite being in EU where apparently there is no sovereignty) = bad.

It's like the Op hasn't read a newspaper other then the Telegraph for 5 years.