Really very sad with France!

[Friendsoftheearth]

I am quietly furious with France. We have been going to France between three and four times a year, every year for pretty much all of my adult life. We have spent most summer holidays, skiing and all the rest, choosing France as our destination over all over countries.

Every week I buy French cheeses, wine and truffle oils, and we are very big fans of France and French cuisine.

Even taking into account that Macron should hope and push for the best deal for their fishing industry, I still find it incredulous and insulting that they should be demanding ten years of fish, and are offering us a paltry percentage. Ten years.
They are in a total stand off regarding an even playing field, I understand the reasons for this, but honestly they are pushing all of us to a no deal outcome, that will see French fisherman with no catch whatsoever, and high tariffs slapped on all imports from France. Tourism will be destroyed as people will no longer wish to go there. It could poison relations for decades.

I am aware of the history between the UK and France, but rather naively thought we had moved on from that a very long time ago, I am in despair at the eleventh hour demands, and feel this is in very bad faith. It has really highlighted to me how little respect France have for us as a country.

I feel like I never want to go again, despite having a tentative booking for a holiday in the spring of next year.

Swiss have the banking system. (and chocolate)

Not to mention Nazi gold (which I just have)

Whos the anti british brigade? the ones ruining our international standing, selling off all our public services and generally ruining the country?

England has some pretty good wine producers
And cheese producers. Eg Somerset Brie. Durham Camembert
And guess what We can produce truffles too.

Who needs anything else from the eu. 😆

@Friendsoftheearth

Once the EU force them to tow the line on the corporate tax front, my expectation is that Ireland will have to leave.

a)toe the line b)your expectations are bonkers

[quote Zilla1]@cygne, referendum results, advisory or binding, need to be honoured. worshipped. lauded. Not overturned like tawdry elections.[/quote]
Have you told Switzerland ?

Why should they offer us anything better? Our government have taken the piss, hung about waiting for the American election results and now want the eu to bend to us before it's too late. F that, we don't deserve anything from them.

@teateateateateamoretea

Look at the population size of Norway and Switzerland yet economically they are significant nations. We have just as much potential. Educated population, very creative thinkers, substantial service industries, fewer social problems than e.g. France

And what do Norway and Switzerland have that the UK does not?

Sensible governments?

"I would be beyond fucking livid if our PM ever treated another country, a close ally in that way"

It's like you don't know Boris is our PM.

The OP obviously didn't care to share how furious she is with Boris over his appalling treatment of our close ally, Ireland. Maybe she is so ashamed of his behaviour that she can't bring herself to write about it?

England has some pretty good wine producers

A couple, but they are inconsistent and expensive./ Enjoy paying 30£ for a half decent bottle of wine,

How can be France be blamed for UK's own goals? The culpability for the perfect storm that is about to his is entirely with Cameron, Cummings, Farage and Johnson's self serving use of propaganda to untruths to persuade naïve turkeys to vote for Christmas.

It is Brexit voters who are to blame not France.

Wonder if Dominic Cummings is on MN?

@Friendsoftheearth

On that note I have to go! I wish you all well wherever you are, and will look out for the next thread when the announcement is made.

I hope for peace, unity and love for 2021 (and no more fur trade - yay!)

Translates as "I have lost all the arguments and I need to open another bottle"

@DGRosetting, I try not to tell anyone anything, though have broken this rule on this thread. I smile at the emotive language used WRT honouring the referendum as I've been lectured to, usually by people who suddenly became expert in esoteric constitutional law when all the Parliamentary Brexit kerfuffles were going on (always recycled Daily Mail and Telegraph articles, unfortunately).

Its almost like France is a sovereign nation inside the EU. Who knew that was possible?

I know you've gone, OP (what's next after COVID and Brexit) but when Ireland leaves the EU, will they rejoin the UK and overturn their spiteful or foolish decisions of the pesky 20th century?

I keep hearing this over and over (Especially from British people) and they don't seem to have asked if Ireland actually wants Northern Ireland anymore, or whether it's actually a practical proposal? It's not as simple as they think and it is a lot less likely than people imagine.

I don't know. Shedloads of cash can soothe over an awful lot of principles - I'm sure that's one lesson the Irish have learned from the British. And while Britain has never done investment, it's certainly a thing in other parts of the world. An EU (and possibly US) backed unification of Ireland - with lots of cash to help the process - isn't beyond the limits of imagination (if you have one).

I'd be curious as to what the people of NI would want as part of any unification process. Maybe there's a case for some German input there ? If anyone can remember the unification of Germany in 1991 that eclipses any Irish unification.

Unfortunately for anyone who doesn't like it, Irish unification is outwith the UKs gift. Unless that's another treaty the UK is planning on breaking ? Although I really wouldn't recommend it.

@Graciebobcat

On that note I have to go! I wish you all well wherever you are, and will look out for the next thread when the announcement is made

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Well done! But I feel that should be UK's parting comment to the EU. And then Scotland's.

@Friendsoftheearth

I have supported France in every way for decades. I am insulted.

Honestly so weird how you're taking this so personally. France is doing what's best for the French. Presumably Boris thinks Brexit is best for Britain.

@Friendsoftheearth

It is my understanding that the fishing and waters surrounding the UK are extremely symbolic, and as an independent country the UK wishes to have the right to say who fishes there, it is not exactly demanding given the outcome of the ref - as it is UK territory. It is my understanding that the government wishes to bring back fishing to the poverty stricken, deprived coastal towns and villages in the UK, to give them back the fishing economy they once had. That is not unreasonable. And yet we see even on here some resistance to that. It is pretty unbelievable. Especially for the Scottish areas that would be enormously helpful to them, as they will tell you.

What I find more interesting is that people actually believe the French are entitled to continue to take our fish for another ten years, a whole decade. That is just deluded. Totally deluded.

As detailed elsewhere, Scotland only sold 4% of its fishing rights. If you have ever known Scottish fishermen, you’ll know at least two things: there are millionaires who own shares in boats and as a percentage of a small industry, their concentration is significant. And within 5 mins of starting talk about the fishing, you’ll learn about how they regularly take ten times their quotas and sell on the black market. So not exactly a noble and traditional industry that we can all root for without...concerns.

You have to understand French politics. Macron will lose support if he's not seen to support fishing. He's already been criticised for not caring for the average working person. France and the EU have their own interests and aren't rubbing their hands together like a villain trying to think of ways to upset us. They're doing what they do with every deal and pursuing their own self-interests as are the UK.

What people should be pissed off at are how easily Brexit supporters expectations have been substantially lowered without any acknowledgement or criticism on Boris and co. Before the referendum, it was all about how easy the deal would be and since we buy so many German cars we'd be calling all the shots. We'd have a great economy with free trade etc.

@akerman

friendsoftheearth - you have no understanding at all of how much Ireland values its membership of the EU. There is not a snowball's chance in hell of them wanting to leave. I lived in Ireland for 15 years and they were overwhelmingly appreciative and grateful for the benefits that came to them from EU membership. They also engaged fully with EU elections and knew that they were happening, so one never heard the bollocks about 'unelected bureaucrats'.

This country enjoys the freedom to vote for lying arseholes. It is very important to defend that right and not have it polluted by the opinions of other countries, regardless of the fact we are mutually dependent on each other. We have a noble history of centuries of warfare to back this vision of sovereignty up.

Anyway it doesn’t matter how symbolic something is if you don’t own it, who gives a fuck?

@Friendsoftheearth

Macron is trying to shaft the UK. It is exposed in its full glory at the 11th hour. It is not about the French fisherman or standing up for France, as they will suffer the worst from a no deal no question. This is about spiteful revenge, a final opportunity to see if he can land a punch.

I would be beyond fucking livid if our PM ever treated another country, a close ally in that way, and if there was another ref now I would expect a landslide to leave. The EU in the last few days have done a great job in showing us all why the brexiteers voted to leave.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Like, the pure comedy in this thread is just so good. Bravo op, bravo 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

@Friendsoftheearth

noble It is my understanding that some kind of alliance is going to be on the cards very soon with Switzerland and other nordic countries. The UK will also join the alliance with NZ and Australia etc, and it is my understanding that Biden is also very keen for the US to join. So it could be that Switzerland's problems are easier after brexit, and many of the issues that the heart of the Swiss mirror the same as the UK.

When you actually look behind the froth and clamour of the UK's EU departure, there is a very appealing outline of what the future actually looks like. I can't wait for this to be over now.

I think the OP also buys her weed in France