Really very sad with France!

[Friendsoftheearth]

I am quietly furious with France. We have been going to France between three and four times a year, every year for pretty much all of my adult life. We have spent most summer holidays, skiing and all the rest, choosing France as our destination over all over countries.

Every week I buy French cheeses, wine and truffle oils, and we are very big fans of France and French cuisine.

Even taking into account that Macron should hope and push for the best deal for their fishing industry, I still find it incredulous and insulting that they should be demanding ten years of fish, and are offering us a paltry percentage. Ten years.
They are in a total stand off regarding an even playing field, I understand the reasons for this, but honestly they are pushing all of us to a no deal outcome, that will see French fisherman with no catch whatsoever, and high tariffs slapped on all imports from France. Tourism will be destroyed as people will no longer wish to go there. It could poison relations for decades.

I am aware of the history between the UK and France, but rather naively thought we had moved on from that a very long time ago, I am in despair at the eleventh hour demands, and feel this is in very bad faith. It has really highlighted to me how little respect France have for us as a country.

I feel like I never want to go again, despite having a tentative booking for a holiday in the spring of next year.

Oh OP, I think you rely on the Right Wing Press too much. And if you think this is bad, wait until we try to establish a Trade Deal with the US, having broken the IMB. And as you love France so much, the plural of château is châteaux.

Debenhams employs more people than the UK fishing industry.

Harrods makes more than the UK fishing industry.

(Brexiteers can stop there, but for others, here's a cite)

www.ft.com/content/74070226-53d1-11ea-8841-482eed0038b1

@Friendsoftheearth well where are people supposed to move to now - the freedom to move to most of Europe has just been taken away

It is my understanding that the fishing and waters surrounding the UK are extremely symbolic, and as an independent country the UK wishes to have the right to say who fishes there, it is not exactly demanding given the outcome of the ref - as it is UK territory.
It is my understanding that the government wishes to bring back fishing to the poverty stricken, deprived coastal towns and villages in the UK, to give them back the fishing economy they once had. That is not unreasonable. And yet we see even on here some resistance to that. It is pretty unbelievable. Especially for the Scottish areas that would be enormously helpful to them, as they will tell you.

What I find more interesting is that people actually believe the French are entitled to continue to take our fish for another ten years, a whole decade. That is just deluded. Totally deluded.

This thread is hilarious

“I remember trying to put family members off voting for Brexit by pointing out that the people who would be in charge of getting what they were promising were some of the worst and least competent people you could imagine. Deaf ears. They really couldn’t see that the quality wasn’t there, nor were they interested in who’d be gaining financially. I was hopeful that the civil service would shore up the lack of talent but that doesn’t seem to have happened.”

@nibdedibble - well, the lack of talent has pared back the civil service for the sake of austerity and ideology, so obviously that hasn’t happened.

@GoldfishParade

For some reason in some circles its always been presented like the EU is some kind of altruistic, NGO-style care bear system, with the selfish money hungry UK on the other side.

Obviously the reality is every country is out to get the best deal for their own citizens. That's what France is doing.

Those circles being Brexiteers creating straw men, IME.

It was bizarre here before the referendum. Lots of posts along the lines of, "The EU hasn't cured cancer, so it's a failure."

Seemed transparently ridiculous and unlikely to convince anyone to me.

But the Leave campaigns continually monitored and tweaked their socially media messaging (probably the others did as well, but we know about the Leave stuff), and they got their Brexit vote, so obviously they knew what would get people over the line.

And here we are.

Macron pisses of a lot of French people. ditto Merkel for Germany and the FG/FF coalition in Ireland for the Irish. That's how democracy works.

And yet they still don't want to leave the EU . Because all three countries know it makes economic sense to have an economic union. And that grown up political compromises are part of being a member.

I know it's a shock to you, op, but some countries can deal with being grown up.

I spoke to one man who told me he loved going on holiday to Europe with his dogs and that I was being ridiculous to suggest that the Brexshit he voted for would change that.
Who's laughing now?

YABU.
This has always been Britain's problem.
They think every other nation owes them something.
Hence Brexit. Good luck with that dog's dinner.

My money is now firmly on no deal.

You're making this all very personal.
We started this. We're the ones that have made out we're putting in more than we're taking out and then had the audacity to expect to still get all the same benefits without giving anything back.
Everyone's just trying to get as much out of it as possible, that's never a good attitude for any relationship, our relations with European countries will be damaged for a long time.

On a personal level, I've always heard that the French people dont like English tourists?

My mother is French. I spent a lot of my childhood there ; where I was subject to abuse and racism because I spoke with an English accent. When my parents split and my mother went back to France my grandparents came down and picked me up in their Land Rover and drove me back to their farm in Dorest. I haven't see or spoken to my mother in ten years and you wouldn't get me on the EuroStar for all the tea in China.

I have always wondered if the anti British brigade on here are posting from overseas, or if they actually live here with that level of bitterness and revulsion for their own country?

Are you ok with Iraq War? Cash for cronies rather than struggling businesses?

I think it's far more unusual to support the government just because you live in the UK.

Have you considered that people in each nation will see things differently and that the conservative government's actions are making IndyRef2 more likely by the day ? Have you commented on the Irish border issue? Northern Ireland should not be thrown under the bus in the name of Brexit.

It is my understanding that the government wishes to bring back fishing to the poverty stricken, deprived coastal towns and villages in the UK, to give them back the fishing economy they once had. That is not unreasonable. And yet we see even on here some resistance to that. It is pretty unbelievable

Oh now I know you're either a Tory minister or a troll! Sure, Boris just wants the unemployment queues around the coast of Britain to get down to the quays, hop in a little boat, and bring in the mackerel!

Are you for fucking real?

OP, I think you need to broaden your thinking. Why should fishing be limited to coastal villages. There are landlocked villages in Derbyshire that should benefit from the fishing triumphs of Brexit. Perhaps Boris could build a bridge (aqueduct?) to the coast for their fishing vessels that have been laid up since the mines closed by the Saintly Margaret (probably).

I must admit I find all the talk about independence and sovereignty a bit off putting. A bit belonging to the Stone Age.

We live all on the same single planet. Our ecosystems , economic, social systems, food systems are tightly intertwined.

Because all three countries know it makes economic sense to have an economic union

It is not an economic union anymore, it is now a political union and that was the whole point of the referendum bellini

That is why we are where we are today.

Had the EU STAYED an economic union the UK would not have left.

Obviously the reality is every country is out to get the best deal for their own citizens. That's what France is doing

Why can't you people grasp the whole point of the EU...we want the best deal for ALL of the EU. And you had that, and you threw it away.

@Friendsoftheearth

It is my understanding that the fishing and waters surrounding the UK are extremely symbolic, and as an independent country the UK wishes to have the right to say who fishes there, it is not exactly demanding given the outcome of the ref - as it is UK territory. It is my understanding that the government wishes to bring back fishing to the poverty stricken, deprived coastal towns and villages in the UK, to give them back the fishing economy they once had. That is not unreasonable. And yet we see even on here some resistance to that. It is pretty unbelievable. Especially for the Scottish areas that would be enormously helpful to them, as they will tell you.

What I find more interesting is that people actually believe the French are entitled to continue to take our fish for another ten years, a whole decade. That is just deluded. Totally deluded.

The government doesn't actually give a shit about fishing except as a tool to manipulate simple people's emotions. It's interesting that you think that they do.

Funny how the fish in the UK waters are "British" fish, but humans in the UK waters are "foreign" migrants...

@Friendsoftheearth

It is my understanding that the fishing and waters surrounding the UK are extremely symbolic, and as an independent country the UK wishes to have the right to say who fishes there, it is not exactly demanding given the outcome of the ref - as it is UK territory. It is my understanding that the government wishes to bring back fishing to the poverty stricken, deprived coastal towns and villages in the UK, to give them back the fishing economy they once had. That is not unreasonable. And yet we see even on here some resistance to that. It is pretty unbelievable. Especially for the Scottish areas that would be enormously helpful to them, as they will tell you.

What I find more interesting is that people actually believe the French are entitled to continue to take our fish for another ten years, a whole decade. That is just deluded. Totally deluded.

Yes we had the cod wars in the 70s. Yes it's largely symbolic.

The BBC explain the hoohaa very well

Don't forget we're to use more positive terminology than 'no deal', OP. 'Australia' or 'triumphant future buccaneering agreements'. or something.

@TheKeatingFive

I have always wondered if the anti British brigade on here are posting from overseas, or if they actually live here with that level of bitterness and revulsion for their own country?

I find this position very interesting.

Just because people don’t buy into some throwback, jingoistic, exceptionalist, bombastic vision of the UK that seems to be central to the brexiteers delusion, does not mean they don’t love their country.

They just have a much better understanding of their country’s role and position in the modern world.

Yes

This featured A LOT on the brexit boards, lots of snide comments about people only having concerns because they worked for the EU or werent british, told to go home to their own country 😶, called traitors etc

Shame its come back

@Friendsoftheearth

My money is now firmly on no deal.

Mine too.