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Original poster

To give ds a glass of brandy to get him to sleep?!

110 replies

Startingoveryetagain · 07/12/2020 22:33

The title is lighthearted incase I get flamed or is that a viable option? Grin

Ds 9 does not sleep and it is driving me insane, not to mention physically draining me.
Its honestly like having a newborn, he has always been like this since birth but I'd hoped he would have grown out of it by now.

His normal bedtime is 8 o'clock most nights, he's up and down the stairs coming into my room until at least midnight, he then goes to sleep but is usually up again by 3-4am and gets into my bed.

I've tried everything from lavender baths and sprays on his pillow, white noise even bloody whale music!
He's obviously very tired as he's not concentrating at school, has dark circles under his eyes and will sleep in until late on the weekend of I let him. It's also driving me insane that i can't seem to get him up in the mornings either.

Any suggestions please?

OP posts:
Martinisarebetterdirty · 08/12/2020 08:29

Have you tried giving him a magnesium supplement? Often poor sleepers are deficient - could also a bath with a good handful of Epsom salts in.

Original poster
Startingoveryetagain · 08/12/2020 08:45

I have tried everything under the sun and it is easier said than done not allowing him in my bed, most of the time I don't even feel him get in.

OP posts:
midgebabe · 08/12/2020 08:55

When you notice, get him up and back into his bed
I know, I remember exhaustion, anything for shut eye, but it probably won't take long to fix if you are assertive
Reward system for nights he stays in his room from 8 till 7
Don't medicate when it may not be needed

ILikeStrongTea · 08/12/2020 09:10

There are some foods with naturally occurring melatonin, cherries are one for example. I think you can buy pure cherry juice.

SpaceOp · 08/12/2020 09:40

@Neome

Another thumbs up for melatonin if GP agrees. It solves the problem you describe but not all sleep problems DS has. I don’t use it every day. It helps reset and reinforce a good bedtime pattern for DS when needed but his main sleep problem is night terrors/sleepwalking
DS suffered from night terrors and still has the odd one - we discovered they are 100% tied to over tiredness on his part. So if he was going to bed too late/not sleeping or was a bit wired (eg if we had a babysitter which upset his routine)... bang, night terror. Not sure if that helps you, but knowing that really helped us as for a start, we were more able to predict when he might have one.
BeefCheeks · 08/12/2020 09:51

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request

SpaceOp · 08/12/2020 09:56

OP - I feel your pain. A few thoughts from a parent with a chronic non-sleeping-from-birth DS who is also 9.

DS has SPD. There is no doubt in my mind that his original sleep issues started because he was too hot/too uncomfortable/too scratchy as a baby but we didn't understand. Obviously. Similarly, getting him to be able to stop feeling and noticing stimuli is difficult, even now. Just knowing this helps so I'd be thinking about things outside of his sleep that you may have noticed (eg, in DS's case - he's always been restrictive on clothes, over sensitive to smells, found loud noises very disturbing. He can be difficult to get started on a task but once he's doing something, can concentrate and remain undistracted for far longer than his peers. These are his examples, other children are different) and then, if necessary, consider taking him to see a specialist.

I agree with others - he's old enough to understand he has to stay in bed, even if he's just lying there quietly. Or even reading a book or whatever. Consistent reminding him of this is important.

A paediatrician told me I needed to accept that not all children need the same amount of sleep and that I had to dial back the frustration over DS' sleep. DS now goes to bed at 9:30. He's usually asleep by about 10:30 and he wakes up at 7:30. This is fine for him. He sometimes gets to stay up later on the weekends, and sleep in later too. Overall, he gets on average between 9-10 hours a night and that's plenty. Occasionally, if things have gone wrong, we'll let him have a really long lie in on the weekend. I'm not wild about that as it tends to give him a form of "jet lag" whereby he then struggles to go to sleep for a day or two, but sometimes just catching up really is that important. This is happening less and less as he gets older and is more used to his routine. [Note, DD, who is 5, sleeps 11.5 hours a night every night. She does not wake up or struggle to fall asleep (unless she's overtired). I suspect she will be continuing with an 8pm bedtime for a very long time. The point is that I have had to accept that I have one child who needs a lot of sleep and one who genuinely just doesn't].

Until about year 2, it was common for Ds to come into our bed. We spent years taking him back to bed. Until eventually we realised that all of us getting sleep was more important. So, when he turned up, usually DH would just stagger downstairs into DS' bed and we'd all be back to sleep within 5 minutes. The benefit was that over time we were ALL less tired, which allowed us to manage things better and, in DS' case, meant he was less over stimulated and tired and we could start to get a better routine and process going.

INeedNewShoes · 08/12/2020 10:13

You say tablets off at 7 and then bath, teeth, and that they go to bed at 8. An hour seems a very drawn out bedtime routine.

I’d introduce more exercise between school and dinner. If DD (3) hasn’t had enough exercise in the day she struggles to get to sleep and then doesn’t sleep all night. She needs a decent walk (2 miles ish) or lots of running around the park or whatever.

Then no screens of any sort after dinner. Calm activities like jigsaw puzzles, drawing, reading together, puzzle book, play chess, tidying, helping to do jobs.

Then a melatonin-inducing snack like a banana or porridge with cherries and cup of warm milk.

Bath (10 minutes), pyjamas, teeth, bedtime story. Then leave them to it.

I really feel for you - all those years of not enough sleep!

Rainydayhere · 08/12/2020 10:16

Steppemoms suggestions :) and weighted blanket. For one of mine I use mag 365 (melatonin didnt work for him sadly) When he is asleep just make it up and leave it beside him to drink when he wakes up and he can do a little bit of his question writing. Poor fellow though (and you)

CottonHeadedNinyMuggins · 08/12/2020 10:21

Phenergan (antihistamine and travel sickness med) is incredible when I need to get to sleep if it helps. It doesn't knock you out but it does help you drift off if that makes sense. Takes about 20 mins

steppemum · 08/12/2020 13:01

when my SIL did the sleep clinic for hers, they were told that bedtime routine shoudl be max 45 min.

Seriously, contact a sleep clinic if you can at all. It was so useful.
Not least because someone took them seriously

123becauseicouldntthinkofone · 08/12/2020 14:47

Have you tried sleep stones, they helped my DS and quite a few others, have a look at the reviews but does take a few days. i use the only way is melts by Tracey but there are others out there. i know the feeling and anything is worth a go. Good Luck x

MindThatTree · 08/12/2020 14:51

Melatonin was a lifesaver for my DD.

Barton10 · 08/12/2020 18:06

If he gets up send him straight back to bed. Let him read if he can’t sleep but if he doesn’t stay there then have consequences such as no tablet the next night. He will stop getting up if he doesn’t get attention. Stop the weekend laying in too and unless he has nightmares he is far too old to get in your bed. My DS hated bed and I had to be really tough on him but it worked and we never looked back.

RozHuntleysStump · 08/12/2020 18:07

Phenergan! Say your kid gets travel sick.

Haworthia · 08/12/2020 18:16

Does he have any neurodivergent (ASD, ADHD etc) traits, OP? I’m obviously not diagnosing your son on the basis of being a bad sleeper, but the fact he’s always been this way suggests it might be the way his brain is, rather than a behavioural problem.

MitziK · 08/12/2020 18:36

@Startingoveryetagain

Thanks for all the suggestions, I have looked into melatonin and I know GPs can't prescribe them without prior treatment.

He's definitely not scared of the dark or lonely as he shares with his brother and they do have a light in the room which I turn off once they're asleep and leave the bathroom light on.
He's not really a big reader, but he does like an audiobook on.

I agree that he's too big to be in my bed now and it's not every night, but enough to disturb my sleep.
I don't expect them to go straight to sleep at 8pm but they do need to be in bed relaxing at that time, as they're up @ 7.30 to get ready for school.

Have you considered having the lights off first? I never went to sleep as a child because the hall light was left on and even now, many many many years later, if DP absent mindedly switches on the bathroom light, never mind one in the bedroom, I'm wide awake for the next six hours.
UndertheCedartree · 08/12/2020 19:41

@Startingoveryetagain - my DD is ready for bed at 8pm but then has a story and then does quiet things in her room til time for sleep at 9pm. She has to be up at 7pm for school. The reason I questioned it being a bit early is it can make it harder to get to sleep full stop if you start trying before you are ready. The people insisting that 8pm is an ok bedtime for an 8yo - well it may be for their DC (and if they don't mind them being up at 6am as one poster commented!) but different things suit different DC. No point of persevering with a bedtime that doesn't work. QI also thought a stronger boundary might help. So better to say bedtime at 9pm and it be lights out and go to sleep time - than bedtime at 8pm but no expectation he will actually go to sleep then which could lead to all the faffing about. A stronger routine might help.

Sootybear · 08/12/2020 20:09

My friend's 7 year old DD doesn't sleep so well if she hasn't had enough exercise in the day. I think I would try that first. Children don't do enough PE in school anymore, so maybe after school get out and play football or something. I know I fall asleep much better if I've been outside a lot in the day. All other suggestions are helpful too, especially a snack before bedtime .

StopGo · 08/12/2020 20:43

I know @Startingoveryetagain is being lighthearted so no judgement. I can remember my DM giving me a brandy, hot water and sugar drink when I couldn't sleep. Knocked me out.

As an adult whose sleep hygiene has gone out of the window due to bereavement audio books are keeping me sane.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 08/12/2020 21:14

Melatonin
You can get it online also from Biovea

UndertheCedartree · 08/12/2020 21:14

7am for school not 7pm!!

Original poster
Startingoveryetagain · 10/12/2020 12:07

So we have an appointment next week to see the gp, hopefully we can get some sort of help.

OP posts:
OfTheNight · 10/12/2020 12:48

I’m in the same boat as you OP but my ds is 7. We too are seeking support from GP. It’s so difficult. I know ds needs more sleep but after years of trying EVERYTHING, it just doesn’t work. Chin up and I hope you get some help.

Blueuggboots · 10/12/2020 12:57

My son goes to bed ok but has always been an early riser.
He's almost 10 and since about age 7, the rule in the middle of the night and first thing in the morning is "unless you're frightened due to a bad dream or you're about to die, I'm asleep and don't want to be disturbed until xxxx o'clock".
Your son needs to be told he can't come downstairs unless ...(make up your own rule here". He's old enough to understand the rules and old enough to understand he can't disturb you in the middle of the night.
My almost 10 year old is in bed with the lights off by 8:45 at the latest.