To not bother with “friend”

[Purplelemon7]

Who hasn’t ever made any effort to see my two kids who were born over the last few years but wants me to come over for dinner with my DH now to see her new place? She was a close friend and lives 20 mins away from me and doesn’t hate kids or anything. Sent me messages to congratulate me on their births and said she would let me know when she could visit both times but never did. My eldest is going to be two soon.

Just say thanks but your busy

I think it’s unfair to assume that all people who have kids can’t talk about anything else. If you’ve given someone a chance and that’s what they do and it’s not for you that’s fair. I don’t exclusively talks about my children but I also can’t deny their existence and they are a significant part of my life so if that’s what some childless people expect from friends who have children than that’s not for me.

To be honest from the tone of your posts it sounds like you are being unreasonable, she's invited you over for a meal and your reaction is wholey negative. And if that's how you feel then whatever the rights and wrongs just call it a day on this friendship. Just send a decline, a polite one if you can manage it and pull right back.

Clearly no matter what anyone says, the OP is right and reasonable. Waste of time posting really.

I see your point.

So make the point!

'Sounds lovely, I wonder if we will ever get round to it - we've got two baby invitations still waiting to happen first at this end lol! Let me know when you can make it round, yes we must also put dinner at yours on the list! Love, X'

I'm absolutely not assuming that all people that have kids can't talk about anything else. I have children. I talk about them joyfully when it's appropriate to do so. At other times I talk about other things, or don't talk at all (depending what the situation calls for).

What I was referring to was the fact that when a parent is put in a room with their two small children, usually a large part of their brain is taken up with making sure those small children stay alive and well. It's completely biological, totally understandable, and it makes those parents behave in a way that is boring and which can be a little offensive for anyone in the room who doesn't also have small children. It's not conducive to great adult conversation.

Go have a lovely child free night being dined by your friend if you are able to where you live. Don't jump to conclusions.

Totally get why you feel hurt - your children are an extension of you and they're your favourite people so you want loved ones to know them.

BUT friends don't always want to be around babies and children. That's fine, just see them in the evenings when kids are asleep. That's how I prefer to see friends anyway!

@LadyLaSnack

I'm absolutely not assuming that all people that have kids can't talk about anything else. I have children. I talk about them joyfully when it's appropriate to do so. At other times I talk about other things, or don't talk at all (depending what the situation calls for).

What I was referring to was the fact that when a parent is put in a room with their two small children, usually a large part of their brain is taken up with making sure those small children stay alive and well. It's completely biological, totally understandable, and it makes those parents behave in a way that is boring and which can be a little offensive for anyone in the room who doesn't also have small children. It's not conducive to great adult conversation.

Totally agree. I've always hated playdates for that reason. Nice for the kids but the conversation is usually stilted and unsatisfying.

@LadyLaSnack I see your point. That’s why I rarely ever invite childless friends over and mostly meet them outside for coffee/dinner/drinks without the kids around.

I do still feel that a one off visit to see someone if you are close to them after they have had a baby and indicated that they would be keen to see you isn’t unreasonable. If the reason however is that she doesn’t want to see a child because it reminds her off what may never be for her, maybe the friendship has run it’s course and it’s better for her to be friends with people who don’t have children, because whilst I can definitely minimise how much I talk about them, the fact is they are a big part of my life so I don’t think I can pretend they don’t exist.

No one is asking you to pretend your kids don't exist. This is a dramatic and flouncy sentiment and it is not an appropriate response to the conversation that numerous people have been trying to help you with here. No one has asked you to deny the existence of your children.

I was flagging that it might be worth considering that your friend might be dealing with her own stuff and that sometimes, for various reasons, it's can be hard work and quite emotionally exhausting to hang out with friends and their children.

It's not unreasonable for you to for you to want a catch up with an old friend with your children there. It is unreasonable for you to expect her to make plans for this to happen when you are the one that wants this to happen.

Anyway, you've clearly made your mind up. Not sure why you posted in the first place? Just for confirmation that you are in the blameless if you cause hurt by terminating the friendship? Well I'm not going to confirm that for you.

Sorry I do think you’re being a bit unreasonable, it’s ok to feel a bit hurt but you’re seeing this entirely through your own prism.

If she finds is so painful that she cannot be around a child for even 30 mins as one off wouldn't it follow that conversations where children are mentioned would also be pretty much off limits? Or do people who feel this way only find the presence of children difficult and not talk about them? I honestly don’t know as I haven’t experienced it.

If I had made up my mind I wouldn’t have been open to consider the possibility that you raised that it might be because she finds the idea of possibly never having children painful. I’m trying to work out what the implications off that are for our friendship.

I’ve dismissed the things that people here have said that I disagree with because I know her and people here don’t eg I know she doesn’t dislike children so as much as people might want me to agree with them that that must be why I don’t because I have additional context. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t suggest it as a possibility but I am also entitled to dismiss it.

YANBU - I have similar with a friend who, when my child was born I offered an open invitation to, which has been reiterated several times (covid permitting).

My child turned one recently, and I got a message saying “ooh I’d love to meet them soon, I can’t believe I haven’t yet!”

I can. You were too busy spaffing your inheritance up the wall...

I think people are also not appreciating what the open invitation conversations were like:

Her: Looking forward to seeing you
Me: Sure we are free almost days so tell me what day works for you?
No response

Another exchange of messages initiated by me
Her: Sorry been meaning to come over, I’ll try this week, which day works for you
Me: Any day but x day just let me know which one works for you
No response

Another exchange of messages initiated by me
No mention of visiting at all

She’s friends with you not your kids. Other people’s kids are boring

YANBU. Did she send a card or present for babies? If not, don’t give her a housewarming present. I know it sounds transactional and I don’t keep score with friends but she sounds self-absorbed.

Other people’s kids are boring

Really?! I love cuddling friends my babies.

I remember now when her sister was getting married she didn’t want to go to her wedding because her own relationship wasn’t working out. She told her sister and her sister said she was very selfish and they fell out.

Sakes alive, woman. Based on that, I think you are being HIGHLY unrealistic to expect a woman who took that attitude to her own sister to take a different stance to a mere friend and her kids.

Time to manage your expectations. Only go there if you can remain light, bright and breezy and in no danger of choking on your steak and kidney pie.

@itchyfinger

Kids are a bit boring if they aren't yours.

Aren’t they just. My friend has two lovely daughters and I really love seeing them, they are great girls. I have no interest in anyone else’s children though, even if their parents are good friends.

I have another friend who always tries to involve her young daughter whenever we meet for lunch or a brew. It’s really awkward because I don’t feel I can tell her I’ve no interest in spending time with her child. My kids are grown up now and I just can’t be bothered.

Are you in the uk. Just use the rules, 'were being really careful dont want Christmas to be a super spreading event' ask her to go for a walk 1-2-1 ( no kids) and talk to her about what's been going on for you both. Then make a decision. Or if you cant be arsed then dont reply to her.

[quote PrincessConsuelaBH]@Purplelemon7 could be way off the mark but is there a possibility that she's having problems regarding having children of her own? It may have been to painful to come and visit you to see your babies, but she feels comfortable inviting just you and your DH to their space. I don't think you mentioned whether she has DC or not. [/quote]
This was what I was thinking.

If she finds is so painful that she cannot be around a child for even 30 mins as one off wouldn't it follow that conversations where children are mentioned would also be pretty much off limits? it’s not as painful, no.

She didn't go to her own sister's wedding because her own relationship wasn't working out.
This is very strange and self absorbed.
Selfish or what🙄.

OP, you sound done.
That's ok.

Not all friendships survive children, it sounds like this may be one of them.

So I walked away from a friendship when my son was 18 months or so and I now miss the friendship 7 years on so think carefully before you give up on it.

I didn’t have expectations that my old friend would take up any caring responsibilities for my child. However she was like a second mum to me (18 years older) and when she didn’t have any interest in my son it really hurt at the time. I eventually took the decision when all over Facebook she was getting very excited about her new husband’s daughter’s impending pregnancy...she didn’t at that time have a good relationship with the step daughter.

On reflection I was being unreasonable as the friend had never had her own child and had many ivf attempts. I think it was probably difficult for her to be around me and my son. I think the grandchild was like a new start and although I had know her a good deal longer than she had known the step daughter, I see now that it was different.

I also was in the midst of postnatal depression that morphed into depression so I think I made a decision that I now heartedly regret.

It does hurt when someone you love and care about isn’t as interested in what you are focused on. However perhaps keep it on a slow burn and when you children are a little older your friendship might return.

There is a middle ground, but only you can decide if and how much to maintain a friend. I wouldn't throw this friendship aside for that, especially when she's been a shoulder for you to discuss your struggles with even if it's via whatsapp. It may be good to focus more on other friendships with people who meet your expectations, but that doesn't mean not bothering with someone at all.

I have four kids and there have been times that has isolated me, especially as I had them young soon after immigrating. Sure, it's not unreasonable to want someone to visit with your kids, but it's also not unreasonable when someone says they want to see you for them to be a bit off if you becomes a we situation.

Maybe it's because my kids were older when people I know were having them and they all had a lot of family support and friends eager to help, but I tend to give those with little ones space. I don't want to add to the plethora of things they need to do and people that are excited to be involved when I'm not. I know I'm not as cheery about pregnancies as most Brits, the best I can do is 'I hope is goes as well and comfortably as possible' with pregnancy announcements. With pregnancy and babies, I've been a regular sounding board when things are scary, frustrating, or going wrong as I'm never going to handwave away concerns or say things like 'at least you have a healthy baby', I'm good with practical help on my good health days - holding babies while friends have some peace which I've not been able to do this year, but I don't think I'm a bad friend because I'm not the type to be excited to see and coo over babies and know well how awkward it is to talk over toddlers and infants. It rare that doing that feels like seeing them, it's more seeing a very busy preoccupied segment. If you've been discussing this quite a bit over messengers, then she's already seen some of that and may be hoping for something more relaxed.