Do I give it to boss both barrels when I leave?

[fromtheritztotherubble]

Am a regular but have name-changed for this as my situation may be recognisable.

Have been in a very high-stress job for over 18 months and I'm a single parent with no family support (so essentially no unpaid childcare). Lockdown was utterly horrific for me and my DD. I have been working 10 hour days with lots of weekends and have had just two days leave since February (have booked holiday but have had to cancel every time due to lack of cover and volume of work).

My organisation isn't unpleasant and I have some nice colleagues but its horrifically understaffed and under-resourced. When the first lockdown happened we were warned it was going to be a rough ride etc and I understand that they had to really struggle to hold onto clients. So I have a degree of sympathy as they were trying to keep the business going.

But despite this they have been incredibly lacking in sympathy of my situation: I essentially couldn't home school at all because of work pressure and I spent most of lockdown working in one room with my DD in another on TV or YouTube. I relied upon screens to give me the undisturbed peace to do conference calls etc. It was horrible. In addition to this I was required to do an additional very stressful job which required me to start work every day at about 5.45am and have been doing this without a break for nearly nine months on top of the eight-nine hour "day job". I asked several times if I could be allowed to finish earlier or if any support could be brought to bear to allow me some time to do some home-schooling or spend a little time with my child and was fobbed off every time and told the business couldnt' afford this.

My mental health and my DD's mental health suffered massively and my DD has been in counselling since. She's fallen significantly behind at school. She's doing much better but we are both bearing the scars. I came close to having a breakdown. My GP has said I am at risk of burnout and has offered to sign me off on stress but I've declined.

When an opportunity to go to another job came up I jumped at it and am now moving. Predictably my current bosses have now bent over backwards to say they will accommodate me, offering me a pay-rise and magically finding the money for additional hires which they previously said they didn't have. I'm flattered but I basically don't trust them to honour this as I think its too little too late and the culture is too deeply embedded and have declined. The job I'm going to won't be stress-free by any stretch but it won't will be as under-resourced and I expect to have more support.

I'm going to see the big boss next week and I presume he will ask me why I'm leaving and for a bit of a debrief.

I'm still really quite angry about the way I've been treated, even though things have improved a lot since schools open. I feel there was a duty of care which they didn't uphold towards me and that there's been a particularly macho assumption that underpins this: its a business run largely by men who have wives who don't work and nannies and it doesn't cross their mind to think about the negative impact this kind of work culture has on employees who are the primary carers of children (ie women and single parents in particular). I'm far from alone here and I'm sure lots of people will recognise the syndrome. I'm an extremely hard worker and I don't expect special dispensation because I'm a single parent but there was a total lack of engagement with the horrible impact that the workload had on my family life.

I want to tell him when I see him how pissed off I am: partly as catharsis for me but I also think there's an opportunity to highlight the fact that this work culture will alienate the senior women who they are always banging on about wanting to attract and that its a potential business risk to them. Businesses of this kind are constantly talking about the importance of diverse hiring and allowing women to succeed but apparently don't see the impact that their culture has on them.

But I also don't want to burn my boats with them or come across as a diva. And I have recognise the fact that they were driving people really hard basically because they wanted to keep the lights on and avoid redundancies - like most businesses they were frightened of going under.

Do I tell him in a diplomatic and assertive way how I feel and why I feel that its in his interests to change the culture? Or do I just let it go, keep the peace and chalk it up to experience?

No good will come from sharing in an angry way, you'll just be disregarded because frankly it turns people off and you seem unreasonable. If there are 2-3 brief bullet points that you can say that are constructive from a company perspective then make them in a calm and rational manner. Personally I always remember to "never say never" when it come to returning (because you never know what job you might need) and don't burn bridges. Some industries recruit from a fairly small talent pool (either geographically or in terms of specialisms) and you never know where you'll meet that person again - different role, different company etc.

I'd phrase it only in positives which make the negatives implicit-

I am leaving to work in a more supportive organisation where my wellbeing is taken into account.

I am leaving for a job that is more compatible with my family values

My manager was unable to take my views in to account so I have decided to build my skills elsewhere.

Be calm. Non emotional. Your message will be clear.

Personally I wouldn't, its a job not a prison sentence, you could have left you could have got signed off with stress but you chose not to. Just thank your lucky stars and move on.

I think diplomatic is key here. Big boss wants to know why you're leaving and it's fine to say why. But I also think its important to leave on a good note if you can, because you never know if you may encounter them again in the future. Nothing wrong with saying how you would improve things and why you have decided a new role is better for you. But I wouldn't say it any differently to how I would approach a normal work conversation (so no guns blazing!) Maybe write down your points in advance so you can decide exactly how you want to approach the chat?

Yes agree with Tilly, you never know what’ll happen - one day you might want to take a job at that company again, or you might rely on a reference from them to get another job - even if those possibilities seem a million miles away at the moment.

I do think it’s OK to be frank about why you didn’t choose to stay on there, what you felt the organisation didn’t do well on and how it impacted you - but delivery is everything. It’s possible to give feedback which isn’t super flattering while retaining professionalism and diplomacy.

Tell him calmly why you are leaving. But you were crazy going without holidays that you're entitled to. (I hope you knocked the accrued time off your notice period.) Their under-staffing is not your problem.

Don't say what you really think. Just say you are moving into a job that is a better fit with your personal circumstances. Say whatever lovely things you can honestly praise about the company. (Eg immensely impressed at how hard they worked to keep the company afloat throughout lockdown.) You never know who you will meet again over the course of your career. Be self-serving for the long term, not the short.

Do you need a reference, and how big is your industry? I think being calm and diplomatic is always better than becoming cross and emotional -you can make your points (as a PP has outlined), without losing your temper, your dignity and your reputation in your industry.....

Put it all in a calm typed report and hand it to him.

What @waytheleaveswork said.

The business I am joining is a better fit for my role as a parent/ better able to support a diverse workforce.

I think you could phrase it constructively. I left a job where they burnt me out and when I left I did explain what could have been done to prevent me leaving but I didn’t want to burn my bridges as you never know when you might come across people again or need a favour. I also think that you don’t want your bosses to speak negatively about you to other people in the same industry.

I wouldn’t. As sad as it is op your child care isssues are not hour employers issue and you are paid to do your job. They could not reduce your hours as the business couldn’t afford it. This was a highly unusual situation but ultimately your personal life and the fact you’re a single parent is not something that should impact your availability to do your job.

I know it’s harsh but it’s the same for men. I also don’t think any other women will thank you for saying all women need help with child care. Plenty do, but plenty do not. Just like men.

@Bluntness100

I wouldn’t. As sad as it is op your child care isssues are not hour employers issue and you are paid to do your job. They could not reduce your hours as the business couldn’t afford it. This was a highly unusual situation but ultimately your personal life and the fact you’re a single parent is not something that should impact your availability to do your job.

I know it’s harsh but it’s the same for men. I also don’t think any other women will thank you for saying all women need help with child care. Plenty do, but plenty do not. Just like men.

Did you read the bit where she was working 10 hour days and had 2 days off since Feb? I'm often on the side of employers on here, as there are a lot of threads by people who are shocked that their boss won't automatically offer them school hours term time only, but here the issue is theirs not hers.

OP i still wouldn't blast them as one day they might be putting in a word for you. Be factual and calm and DON'T link it to childcare. It's not a childcare issue, it would still be a stretch for a childfree employee to have these expectations.

Thanks all for your advice.

Probably could have been clearer in my OP: I totally recognise the need for diplomacy and when I said "both barrels" I wasn't planning to be rude to him and I'm very aware of the need to keep relations smooth. To some extent I've already outlined my reasons for leaving and they are aware that work/life balance is an issue to some degree.

I suppose what I was getting at is whether its worth seeking to try to influence their approach to this when I leave: Bluntness you are kind of right that my childcare issues are not their problem -- it never became "their problem" because I went out of my way not to let it become their problem. Hence my DD and I took the flack for this and my work never suffered. And obviously these were not normal times.

But I do think that if businesses really want to walk the walk on diversity (relating to women) then they need to do some soul-searching about their approach to flexibility issues etc. I know a lot of senior women at my organisation who have also struggled with this and it does have an effect on an organisation's ability to recruit them if women are put off by this sort of reputation.

I think it affects men as well: they will struggle to retain talent if they get a reputation for stretching people too thin. And I do wonder if there's a constructive way to put this across to the boss, now the economic environment is out of intensive care.

If you have constructive feedback to give, then give it. However, never, ever, burn your bridges.

Calligraphy572

This is a good form of words.

I think it's fine to give this feedback as long as you are calm and rational. Emphasise the hard work, hours and results.

It’s not a childcare issue though is it. It’s a pandemic issue, the best childcare arrangements in the world went out of the window during lockdown 1. This is the sexist crap men get away with saying whilst having a nanny, wife and grand parents at home to pick up their slack. Their actions were unreasonable during a national emergency, children and family always come first and I didn’t hesitate to let my staff know that.

I’m still not aligned you should make this a woman problem op. Women have enough issues in the workplace as it is. For me, this is not about your gender, but about the fact you’re a single parent who had no support due to the pandemic and needed to work and fulfil your contractual requirements. It’s about your situation. Plenty of people struggled during the pandemic due to kids being at home. Both men and women.

I don’t think many women will thank you for saying women on the whole need to be given special consideration. Parents yes, but not just women.

Also as a pp said, the pandemic was a very unique situation, it is unlikely to occur again any time soon and kids are back in school, child care available.

Many people found it tough , both men and women, many even struggled to work from home full stop even without kids. Your difficulty was not isolated to you or women, and it is effectively over now and not likely to occur again.

I wouldn't - you never know where people are going to crop up in your life again.

Two years down the line: 'Hi, everyone, I'd like you to meet our new Head of Department, Mr Crapbossyouhadagoatinlate2020 ...'

Childcare issues do disproportionately affect women and if they intend to attract more senior women there is a lot of research to show that workplaces that are supportive of flexible working have a better chance of succeeding in this objective.

I come from a similar organisation. You could have described where I work. Many over the years have left for reasons you describe. At exist interviews, work will listen, sympathise but NOTHING changes. It is the culture of a company. There is no point telling them. If you expect to come accross them in the same market, don't bother telling them. Don't burn any bridges.

I am (for once) in agreement with Bluntness. You need to leave your childcare issues completely out of it. Just concentrate on the problems with lack of cover causing you to have to cancel your holidays, the 10-hour days, the understaffing etc.

If you have to mention your dc, do so only in respect to having to home-school them during the pandemic and how that would have affected not only you, but all staff members who are lone parents (both male and female) and that the company did nothing to support those staff members having to work from home and home school at the same time.

Exit not exist