To think it's unfair my child is in a disruptive class

[FallenLeavesAreFalling]

Not strictly an AIBU but looking for experience.

DS goes to a well regarded local school with excellent academic results. Everyone we know goes there. Most seem happy. He's in Year 1.

The school appears to be well run and the HT is nice.

However it is becoming increasingly apparent his class are the 'naughty ones'. There are definitely a few children with additional needs in his class whom seem to be supported by the TA. This is fine and I appreciate that in a class of 30 this is likely to be the case anywhere.

However the rest of the class appear to be wild! They are continually all kept in at playtime, all told off for being badly behaved. Their teacher at pick up and drop off looks exasperated and doesn't seem very in control of things. Some boys in the class have been saying very unsavoury things to my DS who has been repeating them at home. They girls are very loud and quite pushy with each other and the boys. It's all very 'in your face'. DS says the teacher is always busy telling people off. Having seen the children at parties last year I can definitely confirm they are particularly rowdy and some of the children are downright rude.

Last year was a bit better as I think he had a better teacher, but obviously he was only there half the year!!!

My DS is a good boy and we've never had any issues with his behaviour but he is getting increasingly frustrated at school with all the tellings off, whole class punishments and disruptive behaviour.

Is there anything I can do other than move him?? I could move him but not sure where would have a space and surely he could just join another disruptive class?? The thought of him being stuck in this group until he's 11 is depressing. But I guess that's just school?

I feel for you, this kind of environment is really damaging to children and hinders their learning, development and self-esteem. I am speaking from experience.

A lot of this is to do with poor classroom management. Whilst I agree it is really tough for teachers to manage this behaviour it is not impossible and I would say your DS has a weak teacher - but this should also have been picked upon by the SLT.

It is very easy for a class to turn into Lord of the Flies, with some very dominant children ruling the roost. This happened with my DD in the space of 2 months and she was utterly destroyed by this and a very poor and uncaring teacher.

I would try to make a diary of everything your DS has told you and what you have witnessed and make an appointment to see the headteacher, coming armed with examples. Your child does not pose a problem and the school has a duty to ensure that your child is happy and learning.

I would also tentatively look at other schools at your DS is in yr 1, but it's really tricky as you just don't know what the behaviour management of the next school will be like until your child is in there.

In the end we have been very lucky to put my DD into a private school just to finish off the primary school years. One of the main reasons was the small class sizes. It was a huge change, but my DD was so damaged I just didn't want to risk going out of the frying pan into the fire.

I really hope everything works out for your DS and you get the outcome that's right for you

DD1 is in a challenging year group - however they mix the classes there are combinations of personalities that are A. Bad. Idea. together. She's happy enough though - her friends are there and the challenging bunch are usually just busy brawling among themselves at playtime so I leave it be. If it started to make her unhappy I'd move her.

I do think this bunch have got much more difficult this year - I think they're the kids who really have suffered with lockdown, and haven't got their structured activities up and running with the constant changes of tiers and lockdowns and stuff - which I think is playing a huge part and covid measures mean that while they'd normally mix and match in the yeargroup they are stuck with the same 30 kids (this is what the school have decided) and they're bloody sick of each other! School have stopped all their reward assemblies etc as well - so no wonder they're somewhat losing control of this particular year group - I'm just sad cos they are a lovely bunch of kids visibly struggling with everything that's gone on!

They mixed the classes up last year, think they'll mix them again this year but there are a lot of very strong personalities so whichever way they mix them this bunch are going to be hard work (DD1 included)!

Sorry, should have been more clear.
There are plenty of well-behaved kids in amongst some rogues. Most of them are good at ignoring things and keeping their heads down.

This is the whole reason why I chose a school 2 and a half miles away from us and didn’t even apply to the school at the bottom of my road. The school used to be outstanding but in recent years has been under requirement. I live in a cul de sac and all the kids go there. Some of them are rude loud very badly behaved including my next door neighbours kids. They climb on the cars and scratch all the cars parked outside!
I didn’t want my child to get influenced by these behaviours as the foundation years so so crucial. In your place, I will look for another school.

Not all of us have a choice about 'opting in' to this system. People throw out home ed as a suggestion like they throw out adoption to infertile couples - it can be a brilliant option for the right family but is completely unsuitable for others.

It wasn't a serious suggestion, it was pointing out that our education system is a complex one that is often taken for granted (and not helped by people voting in governments who don't fund it sufficiently).

People are suggesting she talks to the teacher. Do you think that the teacher is unaware that the children are misbehaving?

Do you think that the teacher is unaware that the children are misbehaving?

It may make the teacher realise the extent of the issue!!

My kids have had this all through school and whilst it is super annoying, they've all done well and are doing well. I try to see it as them developing extra life skills!

It may make the teacher realise the extent of the issue!!

If the teacher is not spending her evenings, weekends and holidays trying everything she can to plan the misbehaviour out, and isn't crying with frustration that she is in sole charge of 25+ children, some with additional educational, behavioural or medical needs, without the necessary funds, I will eat my hat.
If she doesn't worry that she is letting these children down, I will eat my hat.
If she isn't spending her own money and time on improving the education of these children I will eat my hat.

@WotWouldCJDo

Well obviously something is going wrong and the teacher is the one who needs to deal with that. The children in the class shouldn’t suffer and have their education ruined.

Maybe they need to them ask for help.

My kids just left primary. My view now is if you are unlucky and your child has a tough class move them. Several friends did so and none regretted it. Sometimes you just unlucky with class make up and dynamics.

The children in the class shouldn’t suffer and have their education ruined.

I agree completely. But I'm saying that the teacher is highly unlikely to be unaware of the problems and very likely to have no further resources available.

@MsTSwift

My kids just left primary. My view now is if you are unlucky and your child has a tough class move them. Several friends did so and none regretted it. Sometimes you just unlucky with class make up and dynamics.

At 5/6 years old? After they've only actually had a couple of months in school as they missed half of reception class? In the middle of a global pandemic?

These kids are too young and there has been too much upheaval and uncertainty to decide whether this is a "tough class". I feel like moving a child out of school would be a bit rash after what has only been a few months back with the class.

You shouldn't define what this class is going to be based on how they are right now. Aside from their super young age there's so much context to think about here and just moving kids around isn't necessarily the solution.

Way of the world so probably best to praise your child for good behaviour and explain that we’re all different etc... and so d children find things more difficult.

There might be some ‘disruptive’ kids who aren’t being ‘naughty’ but they could have SEN. You couldn’t possibly know why the children are being disruptive.

I get your worried about your DC but being around the disruptive children is something that happens in the vast majority of classes. Most children just learn to accept the situation for what it is and it makes them more tolerant.

and inclusive

@liveitwell

I highly doubt the whole class is disruptive apart from your angel.

Speak to the teacher before considering uprouting him. Your perception maybe wrong and she may be able to alleviate your worries.

Not to mention it could be the same at another school.

There were a few kids like that in my daughter’s class. It used to really annoy me when she came home saying one of these kids was put with my daughter by the teacher because she was a good girl.

No one wants their child’s learning disrupting.

Initially DS went to an ordinary U.K. primary with 3 classes per year and it was ok but not great. We had already decided to move anyway for other reasons and looked for somewhere with a small village school and honestly, it’s like chalk and cheese.

DS (10yrs) learnt to ride a bike last week at the final cycling lesson (provided by an external company). He was the only in a class of 34 (mixed ages 8-11) who couldn’t already ride and when he went into the classroom the children all clapped and cheered him. They really are the loveliest bunch of kids and incredibly supportive of each other. That’s due partly to the way that the school is run where older children are required to buddy up/mentor the younger ones.
DS loves school and I’ve never regretted moving house to ensure he has a good start in life.

DS was in a challenging class at Primary school. It was single form entry so no option of them being mixed up. DS luckily had his little group of friends and there was a small group of girls who stuck with each other, and then there was the rest! Individually could be lovely but as a group they did not gel. Didn't matter what teacher they had they were the same from YR to Y6

I moved my son when he started secondary school, the school was having problems with staffing, the head teacher had left with no immediate replacement and the staff never got back to me with problems my son was having, constantly being tripped up, being punched, he had things stolen from his bag and worst of all he was attacked and strangled by two boys, the teacher tried to downplay it but after I requested CCTV to be viewed, she took me more seriously but she was clearly trying to brush it off as ‘boys being boys’ even though it was unprovoked and my son was very clearly being bullied, one of his teachers also did whole class punishments, which is wrong for those who behave and want to learn. We moved schools and it was the best decision we made! He’s now in Year 10 and we’ve had no problems since he’s been there (Year 7). In my opinion changing schools can be a good solution but it’s worth trying to solve this with the school first, if you don’t get anyway then consider your options.

I think it's too early to think about changing schools over this. They are so little and didn't have a full year of reception. In my school we are finding that months at home during lockdown changed the behaviour of many children for the worse. I mean, lockdown was horrible for adults and our brains are fully formed! So these kids probably have a lot to work out internally and also have to get used to school's expectations. I would predict that something similar is happening at many schools.

Talk to the teacher, but I would go in with an open mind. Also, it might be your child involved- and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. He's going through the same things as the rest of them in the grand scheme of things. I do know we have a few children in the class who tell their parents they were punished unfairly but certainly were involved or even ringleaders--it is fine. They're learning. That's what school is for!

As a teacher reading this, it makes me sad. Lots of people using their own time in primary as their only experience of being in a classroom.

Lots of condemnation of ‘in effective’ teachers from armchair behaviourists. I’ve been teaching for 13 years and some classes are bloody horrible because they have bloody horrible parents who won’t have it that their little angel would kick, hit, bite etc. It’s always someone else (not saying the OPs. Hold is like this), ‘they were provoked’. The parenting is getting worse, not the teachers, but there is no redress. We have no power, we can’t expel, we have nowhere to send them and single form entry schools are just stuck when you get a class like this.

You are there to teach, not be a referee or social worker. No wonder everyone is leaving the profession. Wish I could too.

Apologies for the stream of consciousness - I have a tough class at the moment and am working my arse off to tackle it. It’s draining, and soul destroying and frustrating, especially when you know this sort of thing is being said.

I’m not one to teacher bash but this seems
to be down to ineffective behaviour management. New/inexperienced teacher?

Some cohorts are far more difficult than others. Children bounce off each other in certain ways, the teacher likely knows the ones who make the class louder or more disruptive. In my nursery group there are children who really make a difference to the dynamics. Definitely talk to someone though with what your child is saying and experiencing.

In my lengthy experience as a supply teacher it only takes one badly behaved child to ruin a class.
Yes, there are some terribly behaved classes and of course parents never know what really goes on. I have worked in lots of classes where I feel really sorry for the children who do actually behave and the fact in Junior schools they are stuck together all day in the same class for several years.

@ProudAuntie76 how do you explain the fact that some cohorts are the same throughout their whole Primary School life, doesn’t matter what behaviour management style each year group teacher has.

As mentioned before my DS was in a challenging cohort. I was a parent volunteer at his school, I would help in his class but also in the ones above and below his. Many times I wished he was a year older or younger as those year groups were so much more pleasant to work with as a group.

Yy thegreenlight. Most parents simply have no idea how hard it is to manage a difficult class of 30 children (even though many will admit to having trouble dealing with their own one or two children on occasion, so you'd think they'dbe able to imagine it.

Some parents' attitude is "Well it's teachers' job. They are trained to do it." But I'm afraid teacher training does not confer the magical ability to make children behave well. Some teachers are naturally gifted at classroom management, but even they will have trouble with some classes. Most teachers are average at it. Some are less good. (No job is entirely populated by outstanding people.)

It also depends on the supportiveness (or otherwise) of the SLT. There are few effective sanctions available, and even those become less useful when parents defend their child and refuse to cooperate with the school's efforts to improve his/her behaviour.