To think it's unfair my child is in a disruptive class

[FallenLeavesAreFalling]

Not strictly an AIBU but looking for experience.

DS goes to a well regarded local school with excellent academic results. Everyone we know goes there. Most seem happy. He's in Year 1.

The school appears to be well run and the HT is nice.

However it is becoming increasingly apparent his class are the 'naughty ones'. There are definitely a few children with additional needs in his class whom seem to be supported by the TA. This is fine and I appreciate that in a class of 30 this is likely to be the case anywhere.

However the rest of the class appear to be wild! They are continually all kept in at playtime, all told off for being badly behaved. Their teacher at pick up and drop off looks exasperated and doesn't seem very in control of things. Some boys in the class have been saying very unsavoury things to my DS who has been repeating them at home. They girls are very loud and quite pushy with each other and the boys. It's all very 'in your face'. DS says the teacher is always busy telling people off. Having seen the children at parties last year I can definitely confirm they are particularly rowdy and some of the children are downright rude.

Last year was a bit better as I think he had a better teacher, but obviously he was only there half the year!!!

My DS is a good boy and we've never had any issues with his behaviour but he is getting increasingly frustrated at school with all the tellings off, whole class punishments and disruptive behaviour.

Is there anything I can do other than move him?? I could move him but not sure where would have a space and surely he could just join another disruptive class?? The thought of him being stuck in this group until he's 11 is depressing. But I guess that's just school?

This happens. My children went to a private nursery and we continued to go to birthday parties once they all went to school. There was one class in a neighbouring school where the children were all very wild and DS couldn’t cope with the rough and tumble.

Even in the school they go to the year above DS is very different, they do do composite classes and mix things up which I think has allowed kids to find ‘their people’ but that is now restricted due to covid and bubbles.

We have been lucky. If you think you might have to move him you have nothing to lose by speaking to the school. You don’t have to tell everyone why you move him, simply say it was a poor fit and he was struggling with friendship groups that way you don’t offend the families of old classmates.

It sounds as if you've opted in to a system where one adult is in charge of 25 five year olds and it's not working for your child. Home ed?

Agree this happens. My DCs are also in a 4 form entry school where they keep the same classes all through primary - my dc1 has been in a pretty good class and I never saw an issue, but my dc2's class is really hard work. She is autistic and not interested in traditionally feminine things, and is in a class that now has only 10 girls and most seem lovely but very into all things 'girly', while the boys play lots of football and have a couple of ringleaders who are far more aggressive than the boys in my DS's year and don't let girls join them. There's only one other girl in the class she's at all friendly with and she will only play with DD when she's fallen out with the others, meaning that DD spends most lunchtimes alone with a book - but because they don't mix classes, it's hard to see much of an end in sight, and DD is petrified of moving classes because no-one usually does and she hates to stand out.

Anyway I say all this to say you're not alone and it's better to address it sooner than do what I did and try to wait and end up with a miserable stuck 8 year old...

@FallenLeavesAreFalling I agree with the pp who said you need to speak to the class teacher and the head of KS1 if the class teacher isn’t helpful.

One of my DCs was in a similar type of class at a very ‘good’ school and no change or mixing of classes was allowed (presumably because they had so many requests ). We ended up changing schools to one that was better suited to my quiet, shy child.

@WotWouldCJDo

It sounds as if you've opted in to a system where one adult is in charge of 25 five year olds and it's not working for your child. Home ed?

Not all of us have a choice about 'opting in' to this system. People throw out home ed as a suggestion like they throw out adoption to infertile couples - it can be a brilliant option for the right family but is completely unsuitable for others.

I'm a single mum of three without family support, home ed would be a ticket to poverty. For the OP, it's clear that her DC might be fine at school but is in a particularly chaotic class due to.perhaps a combination of personalities and teaching skills. It's not necessarily about the system as a whole.

I had a similar experience when dc1 was 5 and it really was down to the teacher being out of her depth, not managing the classroom, letting things get out of control, the fact that all the children were running amok was exacerbating the fact that there were children in the class with behavioral problems which would not have been a huge problem if better managed. We moved! It really was that bad. It wasn't the children that were the problem, as there were children with extra needs in the new school, it was the inexperienced/incompetent teacher. She was new, the class had been completely different the year before. So no advice, just letting you know our experience.

This happened in one of my daughters years, the poor teacher was having a hard time and said it was the toughest class she ever had to deal with.

I remember there were two boys, whose families were either related or best friends, and they spent all their free time together, the two boys used to fight constantly in class. One time the Head Teacher had to be called to separate them from a fisty cuff fight on the floor of the classroom, the teacher couldn't get them apart. Huge excitement and scandal from the rest of the kids in the class. There was always a different tale at the end of the school day, it wasn't just those two kids, there were others who rubbed each other up the wrong way.

Like your son, there were a few kids, my daughter being one of them, who were totally intimidated and the teacher admitted this and was very sympathetic, but there wasn't much she could do. The class was dispersed the following year, but nothing happened during that school year, the teacher and students just had to soldier on.

If it is a big school it is easy to split them up when they move up to the next year, in a small school it is not as easy.

I would discuss with the teacher, she might be relieved that a parent is raising it as an issue also.

My DDs class is a notably more challenging class. We assume it's because the class has a teacher and a SCITT teacher so they have more staffing. There's also two children in the class with their own 1-1s so often there's 4 members of staff.

They rejuggle the classes every year

I feel for your DS, and hope things improve.

My class at Primary was the same, and I was made fun of because I was quiet and well behaved. My DM asked the HT to move me into the other, quieter class more than once, and every time she was told no, that it would be good for me. I absolutely hated school and developed serious confidence issues. I'm not saying this will happen to your son of course! But really struggled with it. This was in the 90s and they didn't do any mixing of classes or anything like that.

When my DD started school I was worried it would happen again. She's Y2 now and loves school, everyone in her class are friends, etc. It's so different to my experience and I'm relieved. Just crossing my fingers DS experiences the same when he starts.

Best of luck to your DS, he sounds like a lovely boy. I hope you can get it sorted soon.

@contrmary

Collective punishments are just a fact of school life. The teacher can't be expected to identify the offender(s) accurately every time, so the only option is to punish everyone because at least that way you definitely get the guilty one too. They can't just let it slide, and they can't punish a specific individual unless they are certain they were responsible (think the scene in Kes where the teacher plucks the boy out of assembly for coughing, he doesn't know who was guilty to plumps for one of the regular troublemakers who on that occasion happened to be innocent).

I remember how frustrating collective punishments were when I was at school, how unjust they seemed when it was usually the same five bad kids causing the trouble. But it's a good life lesson - life isn't fair.

As adults we pay the price of the bad behaviour of others. Whether it's a strict lockdown because of idiots who ignore a virus, or taxes being high and benefits stingy because people either dodge tax or make fraudulent claims, or minimum alcohol pricing because some people can't control their intake - the people who are doing the right thing are made to pay for the actions of those who choose not to.

No I really must disagree. Whole class punishments are widely considered to be poor practice in terms of behaviour management and breed resentment in those who do behave - resentment against the "naughty" ones and against the teacher. Of course life isn't fair but a skilled classroom teacher will notice and praise those who are doing as they should and (with support if need be) address the poor behaviour in the others. I would be asking the Key Stage 1 leader or the Head how they support the teacher who has the tricky class.

Some classes just are harder combinations of personality and aptitude than others.
Add in the teacher's style/ experience/ aptitude.
Add in Christmas being in the air with a lack of fun Christmassy things to do.
Add in major disruption in yR
Add in a month of extra curricular activities being banned as it gets too dark to do much outside school, and 8+ months of disruption to activities, and being illegal for children to have much if any social life outside school.

It's not a good set of circumstances.

I found that every class (unless heavily influenced by setting) will have a cluster that are motivated and able, a cluster that struggle, but what sways a class is how those in the middle react. Are they onside with the boundaries, or do they feed certain characters with attention or carry baggage themselves. Admittedly secondary, but I once had a class that completely changed character when the cheerleader moved school, and without her feeding with attention, the 4-5 disruptive children really calmed down.

Keeping lively 5-6 yos in at break so they're not burning energy off is not a great response though.

Just a thought but I really don't agree with classes of children being labeled as "naughty" or "disruptive" - especially in primary school KS1. These kids are 5/6 years old and they learn from their environment. If you label kids and they start thinking they are part of the "naughty class" then that's exactly how they'll behave. So I would have a word with the teacher about that if the class is getting a "reputation" as that in itself can be so damaging and cyclical!

There will always be classes where kids are more energetic or boisterous but good classroom management should be able to help a lot of it at that age.

Also - the fact that the teacher is keeping everyone in at playtime indicates that they are not very good at managing behaviour. It's a really bad strategy for a whole host of reasons and generally discouraged in teacher training.

If they just have a bad teacher this year then next year things might improve.

I’d start off talking to the class teacher about your child telling you he is being kept in at playtime as a whole class punishment and go from there. That shouldn’t happen imo. As the mother of a child with ASD and ADHD keeping mine in at playtime as a punishment for naughty behaviour- his or someone else’s- would have been the very worst thing to do and he would be worse. Doesn’t make any sense to me to prevent small children from burning off steam outside, especially if they’ve been quite “spirited” already.

See the HT and ask for a move to a different class from the start of next term. It sounds as though the teacher may need support with behaviour management, but that is the HT's problem. You can make the point that unless you have specific examples you have no reason to believe that your DS has misbehaved and deserves the whole class punishments. They rarely work anyway, they simply make the well behaved children resentful.

Sounds like the class needs a really strong, experienced teacher to keep everyone in line. The first suggestion by HelplessP sounds like a good one. Perhaps it would be worth making an appointment with the Head, to voice your concerns and see whether there is another class your child can move to? (The question will also alert the Head, if they aren't already aware, that they should be having a chat with the classroom teacher to see if they need additional training / support.)

I hope a solution is found for your DS soon. If he can't move class, then the only option is to teach him to be resilient, continue to enforce the behaviour standards you expect and encourage him to ignore the bad behaviour in class, get on with his work etc.

If you label kids and they start thinking they are part of the "naughty class" then that's exactly how they'll behave.

The OP didn't say the teacher had 'labelled the class as naughty', and I seriously doubt that would be the case. It's pretty obvious to anyone that that would be a silly thing to do, never mind to a teacher.

See the HT and ask for a move to a different class from the start of next term

The headteacher would be unlikely (and foolish) to agree to this. It would set a precedent for parents thinking they could get their child moved to a different class any time they didn't like the teacher or the mix of children. Besides, I doubt the OP's son is the only well-behaved child in the class, or the only one who gets fed up with poor behaviour.

Speak to the head.

I agree with PP that you need to speak to the teacher to find out what is actually going on. It could be it's a rowdy class. It could be the teacher is struggling. It could be your DS isn't being entirely honest about what is happening either his role in it or how bad it is. Some DCs struggle with the classroom and are more sensitive to noise, etc. You can't protect your DC from other children. There's no point changing schools in the hope the next place has less 'unsavoury' children

Sometimes the teacher can make a massive difference to a class. If your school changes teacher every year, then I'd wait to see how the next teacher is. And in the meantime, I'd ask the teacher how you, as a parent, can be supportive.

I do think your concerns as posted are valid, so I agree to speak to the teacher in the first instance.

Do you see the other classes at drop off/pick up? Do they seem to be better behaved/better controlled by the teacher? Do some observation to help your perspective, as it might actually be a similar situation between classes.

The whole class punishments don't sound fair. My DS is only in reception so I appreciate he's younger than yours, but are you sure that's exactly what's happening? I don't always rely on what my DS tells me, so if I had concerns about something like that I'd clarify it with the teacher - I think it's worth you doing that.

You also have to remember that children do copy - I see my DS doing things in the playground at drop off clearly because another child has done. And vice versa. So it sometimes can only take one or two children doing something for a bigger group to copy, it doesn't mean anyone is "naughty" necessarily.

This doesn’t sound right at all to me from the school - keeping a whole class in at break is a disaster if the problem is rowdy kids who need to let off steam. My DS goes to a school with a v mixed intake & they mix the classes up every year or two, whenever they feel like the balance of kids isn’t right, and they have never done whole class punishments. A lot depends on the skill of the teacher too - there are 4 boys in his class who caused lots of problems last year and this year he never talks about them - same class but different teacher who has much more control. It sounds like this class has a perfect storm of difficult kids, weak teacher and ineffective behaviour management policy.

There are definitely things the school could and should do differently with and I’d start with the teacher and then work your way up the chain of authority until you get a satisfactory response. Decide what outcome you want before you start the conversations. If they won’t do anything else, just insist your kid gets put in a different class.

@lazylinguist

If you label kids and they start thinking they are part of the "naughty class" then that's exactly how they'll behave.

The OP didn't say the teacher had 'labelled the class as naughty', and I seriously doubt that would be the case. It's pretty obvious to anyone that that would be a silly thing to do, never mind to a teacher.

See the HT and ask for a move to a different class from the start of next term

The headteacher would be unlikely (and foolish) to agree to this. It would set a precedent for parents thinking they could get their child moved to a different class any time they didn't like the teacher or the mix of children. Besides, I doubt the OP's son is the only well-behaved child in the class, or the only one who gets fed up with poor behaviour.

Didn't say the teacher had labelled the class. But there is clearly some labelling coming from somewhere, as OP thinks her child's class are the "naughty ones".

That's coming from somewhere and it's damaging and a self-fulfilling prophecy, that's all I was saying.

My three DC all went to the local primary. DC1 and DC2 had nice classes and a very positive experience whereas DC3 had a ‘tricky’ class with lots of disruptive children. The school did acknowledge this and tried to address it, but eventually we felt that we had to move him to a different school. He’s much happier now.

@liveitwell

I highly doubt the whole class is disruptive apart from your angel.

Speak to the teacher before considering uprouting him. Your perception maybe wrong and she may be able to alleviate your worries.

Why do you doubt that? It's perfectly possible. There are loads of biddable, well-behaved and sweet kids in our schools.

They are continually all kept in at playtime, all told off for being badly behaved

Arrgh - so stupid. If you have got a disruptive bunch of 5 year olds, you want them burning off as much energy as possible, not cooped up.

The teacher also needs to think about the message she is sending. Why bother behaving if you are going to be punished anyway?