IKIANBU, but how to get needle refusing DD to have her Jab?

[Plonque]

My DD is in Yr 8 of secondary school.

She has mentioned a few times about the HPV jab coming up at school and how she wasn't going to get it because she thinks it will hurt.
I've not entertained this at all and have said it's a tiny sting for a moment and it could save your life - you're going to have it.

Anyway, the permission letter has come today and needs to be returned immediately.
DD has point blank said she is not having it and I don't know what to do.
I don't want to set off any life long needle phobias or such, so I'm just trying to see the most successful way forward.
I don't really have any phobias so I've no idea how to handle it.

She had all of her baby jabs but has not needed any sort of injection since so this is new to her, I get that she doesn't know what to expect so refusing seems the best option.
I had said to her if she kicks up a fuss at school I will take her for it at the doctors (I actually don't know if this is possible?!)

Can you suggest any strategies?

I find IM injections incredibly painful. I don't have my ears pieced (because I've always been too scared!), but I'm not as afraid of that as I am of having an injection. It also makes me a bit faint. I am better with blood tests and canulas now after being pregnant in Germany where they blood test you every 4 weeks!

Emla cream doesn't usually help for IM injections. However placebos can - the idea of a "special numbing wipe" or spray probably would have helped me age 12.

I don't remember knowing I had the option to refuse, as I absolutely would have. However I did reluctantly agree that if I got the illness (meningitis, cancer, etc) I would have to have lots more injections, probably while feeling really ropey, and that would be worse than just having one, on a day when I was feeling otherwise fine. I think my mum did offer me the option to have it done at the GP with just her present, rather than at school and I would have opted for that - unluckily she mentioned this after I'd had my last school one :o

This is a very good website (no scary pictures, which helpfully often accompany articles about needle phobia or vaccination safety).

www.needlephobia.com/

The way I manage to get past blood tests now is by distraction and a sense that it's finite, which I achieve by counting to 30 in a foreign language. I know that by the time I get to 30, it will all be over. For a jab, it would be even quicker, so you could try 20 or possibly even 10 (though it's the teen numbers that are the tricky part!) DS1 had to have a blood test a couple of years ago and was terrified so I taught him this technique as well - we looked away from the needle, I held his other hand and we counted to 30 together in French. He said it was easier than he expected.

I meant to say not as point blank as she was!

Thanks for that link, I'll have a read now.

I have a phobia of needles after a really bad expey as a child - I still have to go and get my injections!

If it's the fear of pain, go to the pharmacy counter and ask for emla cream. It's a local anaesthetic and it's only about 6 quid - will completely numb the site of the injection if you use it properly. I find that calms me down massively and it might help take her fear of the pain away. If it's a longer term issue, can't recommend CBT enough.

Or speak to the teacher and ask the nurse to use "special numbing spray/wipe" (depends on what they use to clean the area first) so that she'll think it won't hurt as much because they used it for her?
In reality it'll just be them cleaning the area in prep for the injection.

I very much doubt they'd do that. You can't lie to kids when you are about to do something painful.

@Toddlerteaplease You can lie to kids if it's for the benefit of their health. Afterwards I'd explain to them the truth, but telling a white lie to help with their fear and to comfort them is fine in my opinion.

Maybe some schools would do it, some wouldn't - but would it hurt to ask? In the grand scheme of things I'd rather lie to my child (if I honestly couldn't get through to them regarding how serious of an issue it was) than have themselves diagnosed with cervical cancer. 6 months before I got pregnant with my daughter I had to get surgery to remove widespread precancerous cells covering my entire cervix, and because of it my cervix was sealed in a closed position because of all the scar tissue. My birth plan went out the window when they manually had to tear my cervix open.

And I had my injection and regular smears. I can only imagine what could have happened had I not.

Emla cream doesnt always work that well on IM injections.

And as a lifelong needle phobia sufferer the very worst thing you or anyone else can do is restrain her while she had the injection or force her to do so. It'll fuel the phobia to the point where you end up like me who has to be sedated for anything involving a needle. And before anyone says it, yes I am being totally irrational, yes, it's only a small needle, no it doesnt hurt for long but yes I am still completely and utterly needle phobic.

I would sign it, and as you have done outline the benefits, but also make it clear that it is her choice- I am very pro vax and obviously the ideal scenario is that she has it done; but learning about autonomy over your body is important too. You seem wonderful and it's great you have listened to her and spoken about it to inform her rather than just make her feel backed into a corner against her wishes. The nurses doing them will be used to them being hesitant, and won't restrain her or anything but might be more successful in persuading her to choose to go ahead- plus if she sees others have it done and coming out after probably more likely to go for it.

Hi - I work as an immunisation nurse. Fill out the form and then let us try to persuade your daughter on the day, we’re pretty good at talking them round. If it’s a point blank no we certainly don’t force, but we will try her again when we come back into school for the second dose. A lot of kids who you think will refuse will often go ahead when they’re in the room with their friends. We don’t recommend Emla as it’s not really the needle that hurts but the fluid going in. HPV is stingy I’m sorry to say. Some financial bribery from you might help too :) Good luck x

Also - most GPS won’t give this injection as our service get paid to give them, they might if she has refused multiple times but it’s expected that the kids have it in school unless they have a true needle phobia. A lot of immunisation services offer community clinics for anxious kids where there’s more time to spend and parents can attend.

Sign the form and return it. Meanwhile see her go and get a prescription for emla anaesthetic cream. On the day of the jab she can apply the cream and put the plaster over it half an hour before the injection.

My youngest refused the injection. When she became sexually active I made her go and get it done (went with her). Not a positive experience as if you don't have it done at school (at least round here) you have to go to the men's walk in clinic to get it done. Hpv jab is offered to school girls in y8 or gay men up to 23. Ask her which queue she'd rather be in.

With hindsight my dd said she wishes I'd forced her to have it done at school.

@Marshmallow91 I'm a paediatric nurse. You really can't lie to children for things like that. If you tell them something won't hurt and it does, they'll never trust you again. And you won't get any where near them again.

Honestly the needles are so very fine these days, injections are far less intrusive.
Do you know any year older girls who she could chat to for reassurance?
Then bribery - some sort of reward to follow.

I would print some information on the disease. NHS website. Sign the consent form. After all you as a parent are consenting. I might offer a small bribe. Nobody likes injections but I would imagine the disease is worse.

see her GP to get a prescription for emla cream. Stupid autocorrect!!

I feel your DD’s pain OP. I’m type 1. I can inject myself several times a day. I can’t have vaccinations and the last 5 years they have failed to get blood out of my arm at the blood test either. My body completely shuts down and I end up on the floor, or worse. Once kicked a nurse but I was out of it I had no idea! I do not know why vaccinations use such long needles. This is part of my issue. I am sensitive to it and they do move around in you. I keep myself alive with a tiny 4mm one but was considering actually trying to have the flu jab this year, but reading that it is a 1.5inch needle and that I’d have to go alone because Covid means it’s another year I shall not be having that either as the panic attack it caused at home just thinking about it was awful. Unfortunately my big needle in arm phobia was caused by being told it wouldn’t hurt when it did and then promptly blacking out, age 10 or 11. They should really work on getting vaccines that can be taken in other ways, or via much much smaller needles. Don’t lie to her, don’t force her and beware that if left to be forced by the nurses at school it may well turn into something debilitating and lifelong.

DramaQueen here was told that it was FAR less 'scary' than cervical cancer treatment or dying.

I also explained about cervical smears...

Funnily enough the HPV vaccine suddenly didn't seem like such an issue to her. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I wouldn’t tell anyone that something won’t hurt if that’s not true. That totally kills trust dead in its tracks. Has she worked herself up into a state about it or has she got a full blown needle phobia? How to approach it will be different depending on which it is. True phobia then no amount of reassurance or giving her the facts about cervical cancer is going to help imo. Phobias are not reasonable and rational arguments don’t work. If she’s got into a state about it then emla cream and bribery and corruption could work.

I’d get the emla cream even if it’s just as a placebo. It can be on for 5hrs for kids older than infants so maybe you could get her to put it on in the morning before school and remove it right before she has to go in (you put a thick layer under a plaster).

@WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants

DramaQueen here was told that it was FAR less 'scary' than cervical cancer treatment or dying.

I also explained about cervical smears...

Funnily enough the HPV vaccine suddenly didn't seem like such an issue to her. 🤷🏻‍♀️

If you've had the vaccine, do you not need smears? 🤔 I'd never thought of that (and I am too old to have received the vaccine).

My mum died of cervical cancer and I can assure you that the treatment for that is far, far, far more invasive than an injection. Cone biopsies, hysterectomies, chemo IV, radiation therapy, MRIs, operations to put a stent in, dialysis twice a week (Needle in neck for that). She definitely had a tough time with it, 'fought' it for a decade and it caused problem after problem. I know it's very difficult for young people to understand mortality and the devastation these illnesses have on people and families, but it's such an important vaccine.

I actually think one of the reasons smear test uptake is going down is because women have had the jab and think they are 'protected'

Rubbish. The first cohort for the vaccine are only just coming up to smear testing age of 25.

@teateateateateamoretea

I actually think one of the reasons smear test uptake is going down is because women have had the jab and think they are 'protected'

Rubbish. The first cohort for the vaccine are only just coming up to smear testing age of 25.

Not true. I had the vaccine when I was a teenager and I am 29 now.

To clarify, when the vaccine first came out, it was initially given to girls in Year 8 and of course those girls would only just be coming up to smear testing age now.

The vaccine was also rolled out to older girls at the time (I think it was called a catch up programme) and those girls will be in their late 20's or early 30's now. Coincidentally (or not) that is also the age range where smear uptake has dropped.

I'd tell her that it's up to her. But I'd also tell her that she'd not be getting any more piercings done while she's under 18, unless she gets the vaccine done first. And if that means paying privately for it as she's missed the chance to have it for free, she needs to pay for it. I'd also offer to get her some numbing cream.

I can't believe a small child is allowed to opt out of medical treatment not you op, I just mean the whole thing about child can choose to refuse it.

I suspect in your case once they are all having them at school she might go for it.

Listen to her. And research the hpv jab more as a sign.