Advice about Family vs Career

[aln24]

I'm not sure if this is really an AIBU but I feel it's appropriate!

I am 24 yrs old and in my final year of university. I have a part-time job in tesco. I have been working there for almost 4 years and I love my job.

I am due to graduate next year and the obvious next step would be to get a graduate job in my field. I study business so a lot of the opportunities available to me include a "graduate programme" which usually last for 2 years, and is a training contract with the company with the hope of getting employed on a permanent basis at the end of the programme.

I always thought that this is something that I wanted to do to get me into a good company and then have a good career with them.
However, my partner and I have recently been talking about starting a family. He is 27 next month and has said that he would like to have a child before he is older than 30, which I completely understand. We have been together for 4 years and have been living together for over 2 years.

If he wants a baby before he is 30 that only leaves us with 3 years from now. And if we wait until I'm graduated then we only really have just over 2 years. But if I am going to complete a graduate programme, I will not want to get pregnant while I'm doing that. I have always said that I want to be in a stable job and know that I'm secure before having a baby.

With us discussing it a lot recently, I have decided I would honestly be happy to have a child sooner than I originally thought, as long as we're okay financially.

But this has left me confused about what I want for my future, career wise.

Coming back to my job in tesco, yes, it is a part-time job to get me through uni and pay the bills, however, Tesco actually have lots of internal opportunities to progress up to management. I have always been aware of and interested in these opportunities. It is definitely somewhere that if you work hard you could do okay. The only thing putting me off this is that I will have worked for a degree, and I feel like I don't want that to have been for nothing if I could have progressed through Tesco with or without the degree.

So where my thoughts are now is that I would actually really like to get pregnant in a years time (I would be 25 by then). But, if I take on a 2 year grad programme, this will clash.

I wanted some advice about whether I should have a mindset of "career" and work hard to get a place on a grad programme, or should I be happy with the job that I currently have, know how to do and am pretty good at, and continue to work hard there and progress up that ladder and have a career there, and then get pregnant in a years time, as I can take maternity leave at tesco, and then come back from maternity and continue to work hard and progress up the career ladder, but it takes the pressure of time off me, as I won't be stuck in a 2 year grad contract or anything like that? Or is this "wasting" my degree?
Plus the maternity leave at tesco is REALLY good.

OP i timed my pregnancy so i finished my graduate scheme then 2 months later went on maternity leave! Meant i qas on mat leave at my newly promoted pay which is what i was waiting for. Apply for the jobs then plan in TTC. We started TTC once i knew babiea due date qould be after my promotion

@2020iscancelled also can't do a lot of those things with a full time job?? 🤔🤔

LazyPuppy
Big respect

[quote aln24]@2020iscancelled also can't do a lot of those things with a full time job?? 🤔🤔[/quote]
Do you mean these things:
You’d be insane to give up the only years you get to yourself to enjoy - live, travel, work, buy what you like, party, socialise, lay in until 10am, nights out, cinema, late brunches, girls nights, long wkends and city breaks - you can’t do any of this stuff with kids on board.

I did all of these things with a very demanding full time job. My job itself opened up travel and socialising I would never have had otherwise. Now I have a child, none of it. I’m lucky to go to the bathroom on my own - it’s not a cliche.

I think you’d be mad to put shelve career for kids, and naive to assume it will be possible to then just pick up from before. Getting established in a career typically takes around 2-3 years of hard dedication before you get to the stage where you can take you foot off the pedal if you want as you’re earning well and have marketable skills if you ever needed to leave. If you don’t do it straight out of uni it is infinitely harder, and a big hiccup at this point will set your earning potential back for decades.

The maternity conditions you are describing are not good. “Working your way up” is a crazy approach when the entire point of a degree is that you get to skip out years of being paid poorly in the middle. It’s how things worked in the past but not really anymore, it’s a way to go if you don’t have any qualifications but are willing to work hard and accept a glass ceiling. Why anyone would chose to do if they don’t have to I don’t know.

The idea of having a baby in those circumstances is so far form a good idea. I’d get an accidental pregnancy, all upset, deciding to keep it and struggle through, but to actively put yourself in such a vulnerable position—you need your head shaken to even consider it! And if your relationship doesn’t work out you’re screwed, a single parent with no career unable to establish one.

Also consider what you’d be trying to sell to a future employer:

Situation a: I have a degree and have completed a graduate programme, so now have some 2 years experience in offices and management. I’m on 10k more with great rights, and if I got made redundant I could easily get work at a mid-level in another office. I can gun for a promotion now, or I can take some time off to have a baby and do it in a year. Either way, my place is saved at a good career place that I’d have no problem staying at for a few years if things get tough.

Situation b: I have a degree but no graduate experience or evidence of wanting to do more than work in a shop. I have a baby and am struggling to afford childcare on my low wage so it’s actually debatable whether I should work or not. Regardless I’m financially reliant on my partner, and if they don’t pull their weight with the child I’m screwed. I’m applying for graduate programmes against recent grads with kids in tow and having to explain the gaps in my cv, and facing an uphill battle to make them believe I’m actually ambitious. If I do manage to get a foot in for a career—a big if— I struggle against the recent grads because I don’t have the time they do to dedicate to work fir the first few years.

[quote aln24]@2020iscancelled also can't do a lot of those things with a full time job?? 🤔🤔[/quote]
Yeah that makes it pretty clear you’ve never had a full time job. Your first few years in a graduate job are crazy intense but also some of the most fun you’ll have, where you will be presented with so many opportunities. Some people with kids do take this on but the kids tend to be older for a reason—this is not really dobable with toddlers in tow.

You sound sensible, do the grad programme, work there a year after that then have a baby and get paid mat leave. Tesco have a good grad programme you would have a cutting edge already having worked there

@PlanDeRaccordement

It’s really up to you. I had a goal of all my childbearing done by age 30 myself and I did in fact have my 4th and last DC at age 30. I had my first aged 24. I had finished university and was entry level in my career when I started having children. I took only 12weeks maternity for each child. This is because long maternity leaves is what sets women’s careers back, it’s not the having of children it’s the not working for a year or more. So “good maternity benefits” are a double edged sword. Yes it is tempting to be paid to be home with a baby/toddler but there is a long term price to your career and lifetime earning potential if you take that route. I don’t like this or agree with it, but it’s the harsh reality we live in. For me, having children early in my career was also better than interrupting a career later because it’s easier to be off as a member of a scientific team than if you are the lead or principal scientist heading a project. That’s a function of my career field, though so it differs by profession too which is better. It also meant my children were older and more independent when I reached more demanding senior levels.

In your case, I think the only advice I would give is don’t just stay at Tesco and work your way up. That’s a bad plan baby or no baby. The other advice given- take graduate scheme, wait a bit or wait a lot is much better advice. Just keep in mind that other options exist. You could get pregnant now and instead of graduate scheme do a post graduate degree online while home with a newborn (my best friend did her masters and doctorate this way with her two). Also keep in mind that whenever you have a baby, you can make it work wether you do it sooner or later. The important thing is to decide if you want a baby, how many babies you want and then when you want them. There is no one right way or order that ensures family plus career success.

I do agree too, that before you get pregnant, get married for the legal protections.

See - this is not quite what I said, but I think it is good advice, because it lays out what different ways of doing things might look like, and really leaves it up to the OP to consider their advantages and disadvantages, and also the values around them.

Because really, there is nothing wrong with having a job rather than a career, or having a career later. And plenty of women find that having had their kids, they make decisions to have a different kind of career anyway that is more focused on home life, or in a different sector, or sometimes they need to retrain in the same area they were in before. Even after having been out of the workforce for 15 years, a woman who is young having had her kids can work a substantial amount of time.

In my observation, the reality is that without really significant childcare or household help, a couple can work from about 1.5 to 1.75 jobs while their kids are growing up, and not feel overwhelmed by work life balance. More than that and it starts to get to be stressful and people begin to see the tradeoff as not worth it. That raises all kinds of questions that need to be discussed about whether a family will have the income to pay for that help (or has local family willing,) and also whether they want to. Because even someone who plans for a career may find they don't want to put a baby in childcare, or hire cleaners, or whatever they decide the trade-off would be.

Many choices are fine, potentially, it's a matter of weighing things up. Our society however puts a lot of value on working for pay as making people worthwhile, and working in caring as being lame which can exert significant pressure on people's choices.

I agree though, getting married really is important.

@Onjnmoeiejducwoapy I actually have had a full time job.

You can still have fun while having a full time job though lolz

You get annual leave - weekends off - can go out in the evenings after work

When the baby is here you can’t even just pop to the cinema on a whim or stay out for a drink after work.

[quote aln24]@Onjnmoeiejducwoapy I actually have had a full time job.[/quote]
You repeatedly state in your opening piece that you work part time and are studying currently, before this were you full time with Tesco/another retail?

It’s a very different situation to work a 9-5 style job in an office to working in a shop, regardless of hours.

Have you worked full time for an extended period in an office?

OP's OH is 26 years old, this "life plan" is plainly something that he cooked up whilst a child or near as damnit, with age comes [some] wisdom, he needs to grow up.

Regarding the right time to have kids in a graduate job type field, it's unanswerable. I think first getting to some kind of middle management if you can is probably the least bad option for most people, but it obviously varies greatly between individuals and careers.

@Heyahun that's very dependent on our equal contribution to caring for the child, plus childcare/family support in place. It's not like people can't have a life when they have kids

@Onjnmoeiejducwoapy yes that is my CURRENT position, but I have worked full time previous to this.

@Onjnmoeiejducwoapy yes in an office environment.

People can have a life with kids but it usually revolves around the kids.

@rattusrattus20 that's a very unfair thing to say when you don't know anything about him 🤷‍♀️

Speaking from experience I’d get established in the career of your choice before having children. I came to parenthood at a much older age than I’d have chosen (infertility and eventually adopted), it’s meant I was well established and able to take time out without it impacting on my career. It’s also meant that when I’ve needed flexibility to care for kids I’d already built credibility in my role so had many more options open to me.

You don’t know what the future holds, it’s great that your DP has an excellent job, you too should be able to build a good career for yourself - don’t sacrifice your financial security for children. Even if you completed a grad scheme you’d still not yet be 30 so plenty of time when you’re also still young to have children. I’d also want the security of marriage before having children.

How does he see his own career being impacted by parenthood? Would he be open to taking extended parental leave, or reducing his hours to facilitate him caring for his children or would he continue in his workplace unaffected? All too often you see the mans job being prioritised because he’s the higher earner, leaving the woman in a very vulnerable position financially should the relationship fail. You both should have the same opportunity to establish and progress your chosen careers, I’d delay pregnancy until I was securely employed in my field.

@Jellycatspyjamas thank you for this advice, much appreciated ❤️

I live in a scandi country with supposedly very ‘equal’ parenting roles for men and woman, but I can confidently say that woman do most the heavy lifting in terms of parenting even so. Your choice of DH will probably have more of a baring on your successes than when you have your dc.

You say he’s not putting any pressure on you so I would disregard his “ideal plan” because changing your career plans so that he can have a baby by 30 instead of say 33 is daft.

So why are you considering this? You say you’re ambitious, you’ve obviously worked hard, why would you want to give up your graduate opportunities to work your way up at Tesco? Is it just broodiness or are you panicking a bit about the intensity of grad schemes?

Are you finding going on the graduate scheme daunting? Because it sounds like you think a baby +Tesco is the easy option. It's not. Speaking as someone who divorced at 30 from someone who I thought was the best guy ever...a career and money gives you options. The option to leave, the option of childcare so you can keep growing and make more money and offer your child better opportunities, the option to go part time to spend more time with your child when be or she really needs you, the list is endless. You can be a SAHM later but if you don't do the career first, you won't be able to give up being a SAHM without significant difficulties.

I think it's good to have a plan but make it fairly relaxed and be prepared to change

I would concentrate on graduating and getting a good degree firstly, then getting a place on a grad scheme. Either a Tesco or other.

Establish your career. Stick it out for a couple years

Have a bit of fun. Being a parent is tough

Then think about next steps and kids. Aim to have one by 34/35

OP, honestly your life doesn’t END when you have kids; but it changes really drastically. It’s changed in ways I just didn’t anticipate and much of my free time does revolve around his needs. I have barely any time to do what I really want to do when I’m not working - unless he’s asleep. He’s 15 months.

It's your life OP, I couldn't imagine having a baby before I was 30 personally, but that's me and I used my 20s to be selfish, have fun and get qualified for my career.

You don't have to answer this, but be honest with yourself: does your partner pull his weight around the house? I have a few friends who got broody in their 20s and had a baby, they all had partners who they willingly and happily "mothered" (did all the cooking, cleaning, life admin etc) prior to having the baby, but after the actual baby arrived they quickly got sick of having to look after a man child.