AIBU to tell SIL to piss off over Xmas plans. Done to death I know...

[samanthajonespr]

I'll keep this as short as I can. We're married with 2 very young children. We (including the children) get on far better with my parents than his, there's issues in the past on his side and they're civil but DH is always uncomfortable and goes back into his shell in their company. They've estranged one son-in-law already after they were racist about his heritage.

We're planning on having Xmas morning and lunch at home, just the 4 of us. And then meeting up with my parents and siblings later on at my parents house, it will be hilarious and amazing fun as always. Happy and tired kids at the end of it. Agreed with PIL that we'd spend some of Boxing Day with them so they can see the children.

Enter SIL, who is spending Xmas with her boyfriend and his family. Fair enough but she's feeling guilty about hers and DH's parents spending the day alone together so she's now trying to pressure us into having parents round for the day. Neither of us wants this but she's really harassing DH about it. He's been really down and anxious because of it and won't reply to her messages. There's something that triggers him when it comes to them, even though he tries to hide it.

Now that the govt's Xmas advice has been published, she's now harassing him to "talk" again about it. Texting him and not letting it drop. We would never think to pressure her to change her plans and it's not fair. DH says it's ruined the whole of Xmas for him and he doesn't want to be made to feel guilty for how we're spending it. Not really sure what to do but I want to help the situation. I think his manipulative PIL are partly at least behind the SIL's relentless campaign.

ancient I totally agree with you, I have an only child and would hate to think of him feeling 'obliged' to host me in the future and possibly falling out with his wife/partner over it. I can confidently say that as an over 60 year old I am perfectly happy to spend Christmas on my own, with friends, volunteeeing or whatever, I don't need to be some 'duty visit' to be accommodated.

My own DPs, very late 80s often say this, they find it quite a strain visiting families with noisy children at Christmas, they often feel just as 'duty bound' to accept the invitations as those issuing the invitations probably feel obliged to offer them.

ancient gran its awful isn't it, but I for one know from your posts you are one of Mumsnets more treasured MILs and GP I would happily adopt you!

I dread this too - with my own dds when older, sometimes we must accept, people do not get on!

"The times we've spent it with the PIL, it'll be getting into bed with a headache and me talking DH through his post-mortem of the day. "

OP, this is the same with DH and I - I can't understand how people can suck every drop of joy out of fun occasions like my Pils and as you say - on my side - DH is an integrated, loved family member, who can chat, move smoothly in and out of the family like anyone else

At Pils, I am very much the feared outsider - even DH is an outsider compared to SIL and its this repeated utterly cheeky behaviour from SIL, and pils along with lots of other stuff have lead to a break from them and now we are ( blissfully) low contact.

As its affecting your DH so much I would also intercede here - I probably wouldn't directly with Pils but SIl - open season, how dare sh BUT = your Dh really does need to find his voice but again I totally get why its so hard in these situations with these set ups.

Get it out of the way NOW without, so any unpleasantness is dealt with and you can enjoy the run up to xmas.

To be quite frank -these people are often totally pig headed and this why they cant self evaluate or understand why people dont want to be around them.

Your poor DH...trapped in this nightmare.

@samanthajonespr

And I forgot to mention, PIL are not elderly. They're 60's so it's not like they're frail and lonely

This is young - are you sure they don't want to do their own thing too? Xx

He’s avoiding responding and dealing with it, that’s increasing his sister’s persistence (because being ignored is shit, my brother does it too). He’ll then feel guilty about BOTH the Christmas plan to not see his parents ‘on the day’ AND his inability to deal with it.

So he needs to respond tonight. You can write the text for him in agreement with him if he’s so avoidant. But it should come from him not you.

Sis, I know you’re anxious about Mum & Dad but the plans are all made now and we’re looking forward to seeing them on Boxing Day not Christmas Day. They were fine with that plan, they told us. I don’t think you need to stress about them.

If she replies with a version of ‘Mum and Dad are a bit sad about it actually and they didn’t want to make you feel guilty’ then he says Sis, it’s a bit unfair of you to tell me that if they don’t want me to feel guilty. You could change plans if you want to, but we’re going to stick to the original Boxing Day plan.

It's your Christmas too. You, DH and your kids deserve a lovely, happy Xmas and it's really not your problem that SIL has made other plans or feels guilty.

Unfortunately CFs like SIL are impervious to reason and will railroad your DH if she gets the chance. She needs to be met with a firm NO and then shut the conversation down. If your DH isn't capable of dealing with his sister it may be best for you to step in and message her.

You don't have to bend for her. You don't have to feel guilty. You've already made plans, stick to them and have a bloody lovely Xmas!!

Jesus everyone needs to grow a pair. “Hi SIL, DH’s wife here. We have already discussed this with PIL and had all agreed on seeing them Boxing Day. We have made plans accordingly and will not be changing them. If you wish to change your plans to spend Christmas Day with your parents then feel free, but it doesn’t work for us”

And then ignore her wittering on

Surely the 'Christmas bubble' guidance means you will have to reconsider that wider family plans anyway...

If you meet with your family that is 2 households, if you then meet with your PIL (on boxing day, or whenever) they are automatically in a full bubble, and therefore cannot see SIL...

Your SIL is similarly meeting with her partner's family then presumably planning to visit her parents, that would also include them in that bubble - because they have directly, or indirectly had contact with 2 other households. Unless SIL is proposing not seeing her parents at all????

There is no way round it.

Not really sure what to do

Yes, you do. Pick up the phone and sort your SIL out. Do not let her get her way. If she feels that guilty about her own parents, then she is welcome to host them herself. I hate it when people try to guilt others into doing something they know they don’t want to do 😡

I agree you should stick to your plans. Is SIL golden child?

@PoorMansPaulaRadcliffe

Well, you're probably right, but representing your family Christmas as 'hilarious and amazing fun as always' - how could you possibly know? - jars a bit. My ex's family were probably more fun than mine, but I didn't need to hear it all the time.

🙄

We had this situation a few years back and in the end I hosted and had ILs and my parents. As a result of me apparently snubbing them (read spending most of the day in the kitchen and and really only seeing people who came in to help, plus wanting to spend some of the day helping my own small DC with their presents) we haven't seen them since. So there's a plan for you

He needs to respond. Worrying about it is more stressful for him than just doing it. I personally would just keep reiterating what you ARE doing and not get drawn into what you're not doing.

Eg. repeat:
"We're all looking forward to seeing them with the children on Boxing Day"

As long as his parents are happy with boxing day tell her to butt out. Block her if she carries on...

@PoorMansPaulaRadcliffe not at all, that sounds really tough. I'm sorry you went through that

The times we've spent it with the PIL, it'll be getting into bed with a headache and me talking DH through his post-mortem of the day.

Oh your poor DH, this is exactly me after a visit with my mother. And every time I wonder why I put myself through it, especially at Christmas.
Stick to your guns and tell SIL an unequivocal no. And repeat. She'll have to just get over it and your DH is entitled to a nice Christmas.

* DH says it's ruined the whole of Xmas for him*

Oh man the hell up.

Seriously, pathetic.

Your issue should be with your DH not dealing with this family issue as an adult.

definitely found the best thing to do when you feel this pressure and keep receiving texts from someone and it upsets you is to just block the number for a bit!

I agree with sending one last text to SIL, and saying you will not be discussing it any further. The end. Block if needs be.

Your plan is perfect already. No need to change.

Tell DH to grow a pair.
Their parents too.

Just be firm. This Christmas is different to other Christmases and loads of grandparents will be on their own anyway. I don't even know any grandparents who want to see their children and grandchildren this Christmas (although in their 70s and 80s so at higher risk).

Tbf, Freakout, reading between the lines it sounds as if there has been abuse - at the very least massive favouritism of the SIL - and it's astounding how massive and insurmountable an actual or perceived confrontation can feel in that context. For the same reason, OP, i would be helping your dh draw an unequivocal boundary and not entertaining any more of the guilt trips (and perhaps encouraging him to get counselling in the new year).

@EmeraldShamrock

I think SIL is expecting the same as your family this year to get out of doing it. If you go to your family most years SI iis left entertaining them. DH should share the load alternative years. I think SIL is the opposite of selfish she' is trying to ensure her parents aren't alone on Christmas day. It isn't fair it is left for her each year. I do she could do her own thing and not care but she obviously does care.

DH should not share the load alternate years if they're such awful company, there is no obligation to.

These arrangements don't work well anyway, people get into complicated turns and Christmas rotas. If the SIL meets someone whose turn with their family is the opposite year to her turn with her family are they supposed to never have Christmas together?

@samanthajonespr your DH could have a look at some of Susan For ward's books about family dynamics.
MIL is a narcissist, a day with her feels like a week, for me or DH. She already has the whole golden child and scapegoat dynamic going on with the grandchildren, it's really unpleasant to see, and I think it's worse for DH than for me as it is quite triggering.
We are very low contact, like ultra diet contact, and that is plenty.
Do what is right for your family.

@Freakout11
A little harsh tbh. If OP's husband has developed anxiety around his family then its understandable he feels so much pressure......that said, i do agree with you that he does need to stand on his own 2 feet and deal with this once and for all!

@samanthajonespr....if your DP doesnt stand up for himself then this will continue to get worse and ultimately the issues he has now will spiral, possibly to the point it becomes impossible for him to deal with issues in general. That may sound extreme however i have seen this before. They get worn down so much they become a shell of who they used to be. It may not be easy for your DH but he does need to deal with this or it will get a lot worse.

Just re-read OP. I thought the SIL was saying that as she felt guilty, she wanted BOTH her side and your side to see them on christmas day! So she actually just wants YOUR family to go in order to lessen HER guilt - bloody hell! I feel sorry for your DH, it’s obviously causing a lot of anxiety - all he can reply is that you’ve all made plans already and she can change hers and go, how can she argue with that? (unless of course she sees herself as more important )

Is sil blind ? To the poster that said she is caring, obviously not for her db, I imagine his demeanor isn't so wonderful when he is there or maybe sil has never seen him happy and normal?

Who in their right minds would try and force an unhappy sibling into an unpleasant dynamic? Except pershaps the blind golden child of the narcissist.