Worried about smoke from wood burner

[Igglepiggle3]

We have just had a log burner installed and have a couple of young children. Youngest is 3.
Today the stove started to smoke. We sent the children straight out of the room and opened windows, put on fan etc I’m just worried the smoke could have done them some harm. It was t too much and we went into the room after the smell had cleaned. Just concerned as when I went to check in the smell a couple of times it hurt slightly to breathe in and I now have a headache!
I am a massive worried so may be over reacting!

@TheNighthawk

Yes - apparently nationally domestic wood burning is responsible for more PM2.5 that all the traffic put together!

www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/feb/22/wood-diesel-indoor-stoves-cities-pollution

A few years ago I travelled for work to Chile where domestic wood burning is the standard way of heating homes and I was astonished by the pollution problem - it’s appalling what happens when every house has one. Thick grey clouds hanging over every town and city.

@Buddytheelf85
Interesting. I’ve followed this article back to source and it appears to come from estimates from the National Atmospheric Emissions Inventory. Definitely one to read further to understand the methodology used to derive these figures. Always good to get some additional information and sources in this complex area.

Why did you buy one if you're worried about smoke? Have you never been near a fire before?

I would never have a wood burner in my house, the particulates they release are horrendous.

I used to have asthma as a child and wherever I visit someone with a wood burner I start to cough and my chest gets tight.

It's something I look for on cottage rentals now and try to avoid. Loathe them. Agree with the PP who thinks they are a ticking time bomb. Like smoking, eventually people will wake up to the damage they do.

The stove we ha e is defra approved so I believe it is better for the environment and people with asthma

I had two in my old house. They do this the first few times they are used. Light them, open windows and stay in other rooms for a couple of hours.
It’s normal for the first 3/4 fires but if it’s happening after that there’s a problem. You won’t regret having them though they are amazing for heat, I miss mine so much but cant afford to have them in our new house just yet.
By Christmas you will be all cuddled up on front of it and roasting. Sooo jealous!

Gosh I’m obviously in the minority here! Flipping hell I really didn’t realize how awful they were. 😲

@Igglepiggle3

The stove we ha e is defra approved so I believe it is better for the environment and people with asthma

Sorry, no. See the link below re. eco approved stoves (near the bottom of the article)

www.bmj.com/content/360/bmj.k167/rr-3

The fact is that all these stoves are tested under absolutely ideal conditions, ie. already heated up, correctly laid with an ideal amount of dry wood, ideal draught and emissions are only measured for a short time while the stove is burning at max temperature.

This is not, of course, how stoves are used IRL and the situation is exactly analogous to the diesel scandal.

Some more articles of interest: (all from BMJ rapid responses - the original article is behind a paywall, but the responses are informative)

www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h2757/rr-1

www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h2757/rr-0

These articles are from 2015/2016 - surely the log burners would have improved in 5 years?

@Ispini we opened patio doors, vents and got a fan out. When the smell had gone (20mins) we went back in - I hope that any horrible particles or fumes had gone at that point

When you have a new stove fitted you should have three small fires first to cure the stove. You should have been told this by your fitter, or read the instructions that came with the log burner. If you do not do this then if will smoke badly.

You should always have the vents open when the burner is on. And the carbon monoxide alarm should have been fitted and working when the fitter left or else it shouldn’t have been signed off.

Was it fitted by a registered Hetas engineer?

Bear in mind VOCs are also emitted from carpets, paint etc... so we also need to be aware of the absolute/relative risk here.

Also, if you have got a newish car, you are probably living on borrowed time.

www.emissionsanalytics.com/news/theself-poisiningcar

Have you had your chimney checked, we luckily checked out one in a house once, already log burner in there, that had been used.
There was a whole concrete biscuit half way up the chimney.
Had we lit it we could have all been killed.
Smoke in the room isn't good ime

I also had this today - and often do when the flue is cold (today has been a cold day!).

When the weather is like this, I usually burn some newspaper for a bit first to warm the flue a little, which helps a lot to stop the smoke coming out. Then start putting the wood on. You need flames!!

My wood burner heats my lounge two upstairs radiators and my hot water for my bath.
Very efficient when you know how to use them properly

@Ispini

Gosh I’m obviously in the minority here! Flipping hell I really didn’t realize how awful they were. 😲

There is no doubt there is evidence of some harm to human health. However there is a lot of emotive language on here "awful", "terrible" etc. Basically unless you live like our hunter-gatherer ancestors you are exposed to all sorts of risks in modern life.

To get a full understanding of the risk they pose requires going back to primary sources to understand the relative/absolute risk and it's context in modern life generally. By that I mean understanding and evaluating the risks of every decision we make and item we consume.

So if you think the stats on wood burners are terrifying you could also add long-haul flights, working shifts, eating processed meat, any food cooked about 100C, carpets, paint....

Did anyone read about the recent research that says open fires (and log burners?) have been linked to dementia due to the polllution it produces. I’ll try and find it.

Sorry, already mentioned..

Your carbon monoxide detector needs to be high up. On top of the tv isn't enough.

I agree, you need to be careful if a woodburner smokes, but I've had one for years and my DC are fine (so am I). There are risks with just about everything but I can think of nothing more depressing than winter evenings without a real fire.

For anyone interested in this area I would highly recommend The Art of Statistics by David Speigelhalter.

To quote directly from the introduction

“In order to be able to critique scientific work, and even more the media reports which we all encounter on a daily basis, we should have an acute awareness of the dangers of selective reporting, the need for scientific claims to be replicated by independent researchers, and the danger of over-interpreting a single study out of context”

@Northernsoullover

Your carbon monoxide detector needs to be high up. On top of the tv isn't enough.

Carbon monoxide should be placed between knee and waist height, 1 metre from the heat source. Carbon monoxide sinks. Heat and smoke rise.

@umberellaonesie CO sinks? Where is your source for that?

A quick google search will direct you to some reputable sources that can advise you where to place a CO detector. First result here:

www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/where-should-i-place-carbon-monoxide-detector

Carbon monoxide sinks

I find this hard to believe as it is slightly lighter than air.

I will get the alarm put back on the wall. It was taken down by decorators only last week. Yes the stove was fitted by a reputable installer and we had the chimney cleaned before hand. I don’t have any concerns about that. And it has been used a couple of times a week so I would say approx 10 times. I think as people have mentioned, the smoke came from the extreme cold weather. We have done research now so will be prepared next time it cold!