To think ds doesn't have an eating disorder - or does he?

[looseddaughter]

He's 11 and has always been skinny - unlike ds2 who I described as 'sturdy' when he was younger little. He's slim now but always fills out a bit before a growth spurt, while ds2 just grows steadily and never fills out. His ribs have always been visible but I must admit recently more of his bones are more prominent on his frame. He wears clothes in his age range and they fit well. His face isn't gaunt and he has a lot of energy.

He has always been quite a fussy eater when compared to ds1, who will pretty much eat anything. Ds2 likes pasta of most kinds, can be fussy about the type of bread he'll eat and leave crusts etc. Loves all fruit and limited veg. Loves the usual sweets/crisps, and likes crackers. I would say his eating has got more fussy lately and it's not unusual for him to leave most of his packed lunch, even if I know it's items he likes.

He can be fussy about eating dinner, but then often I put it down to him having crackers, cuppa-soups, fruit etc before tea. Even meals he likes (beige teas, minced beef based meals or pasta) he'll often leave a fair bit but I tend to give portions of the same size for all of us. Can usually be relied upon to eat fruit with yoghurt after. Always has cereal for breakfast with fruit and has 2 weetbix - always eaten.

Ex and I are divorced and ex is a vegan (but eats fish) who does a lot of home-cooking and bread-baking, a lot of which ds has told me he doesn't like and won't eat. In the past ds has been upset by ex's family calling him skinny and lately it seems to be coming more from ex himself. I tend to think ex should cater more for ds's likes, even if they're irritating to him.

Tonight ds2 rang me in tears as ex has told him he's anorexic. I'm livid - surely you shouldn't say that to a child? Apparently tea was a homemade pizza with anchovies, wihich ex knows ds won't eat! Why?? He loves pizza - why not just leave it with cheese?

Now ex has texted me saying he's worried about ds2 as he's 'painfully thin' and 'hardly eats with [him]' and we should see someone?

What do I reply? I admit I have noticed him being pickier and a bit thinner than he was, but I also think ex seems to make no attempt whatsoever to cater to his tastes, which doesn't help.

Any advice would be great - I'm churning here.

You say that your ex is a vegan but eats fish. That means he is not a vegan, so is an idiot. Therefore I wouldn't take any notice of what he says!

If he's getting thinner and is showing problems around food then you really do need to take it further. It can get serious quite quickly in children.The getting thinner would worry me.

Whatever the cause, the sooner you try to access help,the better. And don't be fobbed off.

Your ex is evidently not the sensitive type and isn't helping with stupid comments. And he's not a vegan either!

If he is getting visibly thinner I would get him checked out. However DS16 has always been a picky eater and eats similar things to your DS. He simply isn't that bothered about food, will eat when he's hungry and only what he wants. If I try to give him other foods he just won't eat. He eats loads of fruit, cereals, bread (specific type only) and meals that he likes like pasta, chicken and chips, pizza etc.
He's always been very skinny too and now at 6'2" looks really tall and thin. His ribs stick out too and have always done so. But I've not noticed him getting thinner, he just seems to stretch taller, so am not worried!
Your DS sounds the same and I expect will just not eat what your ex cooks if he doesn't like it. Your ex will need to either accept that or start to cook to his tastes.
I know people will say to you that you should try to stop him being so fussy, I've had that for years with DS. But the simple fact is he's just not bothered to change his ways and is perfectly fit and healthy the way he is.

Has your ex always been a bully?

Also, I would bear in mind that when most children are overweight it makes the ones at a healthy weight look "thin".

A fish eating vegan. 😂😂😂

Yes, sorry. I know he's not a vegan - actually think he calls himself a pescatarian. Ds2 absolutely loathes fish and always has.

I think ds sounds like the pp's son in that he's jut not that bothered by food. DS1 was never overweight (weighed and measured in reception & y6 and in normal range) but he has had a stockier build when young. Now he's really tall and slim but ds2 has always been smaller overall.

I think you need to look at the food. But probably not as you think.
The crackers and cuppa soup before dinner need to stop. Then do dinners. If he still has issues eating his dinner, do look into it further.

Your ex isn’t a vegan and you shouldn’t call him one.

It doesn’t sound like your DS is anorexic, and that’s not a sensible thing to say to a child. But it does sound like his fussiness is causing him to be less healthy than he could be. There is probably a balance to be struck - your ex should try to make more meals your son will enjoy, and you should both work on promoting healthy eating habits and an understanding of balanced meals. If he’s not eating enough even when made things he likes it suggests he doesn’t have a particularly healthy relationship with food, and it would be worth trying to explore how to improve that.

Obesity is such a big problem that many people have lost sight of what healthy looks like - you’re meant to be able to see ribs. I bet your ex and his family are fat. Not fancying anchovy pizza 🤮 doesn’t mean your poor son has an eating disorder.

Vegan that eats fish? HA.
I don't think he has an ED but I'd keep an eye on it.

Sounds like you ex has issues with food (a vegan who eats fish ) and has passed them on to your son. Can you keep him away from there for a while and just normalise food without all the wackiness.

What do you reply? How about "Try providing food he likes rather than food he hates. If he continues to refuse food we all know he likes then we can discuss that. In the meantime time can I suggest you do some reading so you are aware how harmful it is to tell a child they have an eating disorder and ensure you never ever do that again."

Please bear in mind that for a child you are supposed to be able to see their rib cage! As a society we have lost sight of the norm.

Have you checked his height/weight on the NHS growth charts?(assuming you're in UK) Is he roughly where he usually is?
Lots of children become picky with food in response to other things going on in their lives, and body changes due to growth etc.
If you think he could so with some more weight on him, try and boost what he's eating- full fat milk, peanut butter on toast, etc on top of usual food.

My DS is very slightly built and he has real issues with food, but he's not anorexic; it's not a control issue. He could have had a grow, or hormonal/metabolism change (more active after going back to school??) etc.

Talk to him about how he feels. My DS often asks me to cook rather than his father, as he knows I'll always make his safe foods, whereas his father still thinks introducing new foods over and over again will lead him to try them... It won't, he has Asperger's and sensory issues around food, but nm

My brother looked like we starved him until 13 or 14. Few of his freiends did too. It looked bit concerning by the swimming pool, but they were absolutely ok. I agree with others about losing sight of correct weight though.
However, even though slimmest is ok, nutrition is important so look at that cuppa soups before dinner.

My ex is convinced that DS is too skinny because all the other boys in his family are chubby. DS isn't bothered about food much and will save up his appetite for dinner so he eats like a bird all day. He's slim and active and perfectly normal. Is your DS active and full of energy?

@SchrodingersImmigrant

I think you need to look at the food. But probably not as you think. The crackers and cuppa soup before dinner need to stop. Then do dinners. If he still has issues eating his dinner, do look into it further.

This.^

Because a couple of crackers or a cuppa soup is a well known way to fill yourself up for minimal calories - you can then argue that you're not hungry/lull Mum into a false sense of security that you're eating, just not much of dinner, when you've actually got a stomach full of water (because you 'need' a drink when you've got crackers, between 40-200 calories of snack and three chicken dippers instead of a decent meal.

I've worked with secondary aged kids for a long time. Often, the resident parent(s) is/are absolutely the last to know that their child has developed an ED.

Some will still deny it even when the child is in hospital; the school has noticed (multiple reports, all independent), the other kids have noticed (multiple reports), but some parents will still argue 'it's a growth spurt/they've always been slim/everybody else is fat/they eat snacks/they just don't like the food they've been given/they can't each much or their tummy hurts/it's my ex trying to get back at me/etc/etc'.

It would also be useful to speak to his Head of Year. It's possible if he has school dinners to see what he buys - and, more importantly, whether he eats it or gives it to somebody else or leaves it/chucks 90% of it in the bin - the staff who see him enough to know him and recognise that he's noticeably lost weight or is more lethargic/frenetic/withdrawn or argumentative or if anybody has confided that they're worried about their friend.

The crackers and cuppa soup before dinner need to stop

This is hard because he's home up to an hour before me. If I don't buy them it's not fair on ds1, who's currently the type who eats everything and remains slim. I do agree though.

If he’s not eating enough even when made things he likes it suggests he doesn’t have a particularly healthy relationship with food

But how do I know it's not enough? If he says he's full and has energy then how can I insist he hasn't eaten enough? Maybe he has a small appetite?

I bet your ex and his family are fat.

Ex could lose some weight but his mother and sister, who started this, are very thin. They have always commented on my children's eating: 'Ooh, grapes are full of sugar you know!@" when they were toddlers and ex mil called ds1 fat on Christmas day when he was 3:

cousin: Aww, look at his cute little outfit!
Ex-mil: Yes, fat children always look better in their clothes.
Me:

Does him having bags of energy and doing well at school (so concentrating) count for anything? Genuine question - just wondering whether skinniness is the only way of telling if he's eating enough.

I agree your DS is most probably perfectly healthy and in normal weight range. Your ex should not have called him “anorexic” even if it was truly suspected. It might help reassure DS and your ex if you take him to GP for a check up. They’ll check his height and weight and tell him how he is normal for his age. Alternatively, if he is underweight, the GP would be able to determine that on off chance your ex is correct and your DS has gotten too thin.
I also agree with prior posters that his diet isn’t very healthy. Cup of soups are filling but not much nutrition or calories. Crackers are similarly not very nutritious.
I think too that your ex is being deliberately cruel to make foods your DS likes like pizza and then deliberately spoil them by adding anchovies to it. There is no reason for that other than to upset your DS as he could easily have made two smaller pizzas and let DS have the toppings he wanted. You do need to have a talk with your ex about his attitude towards feeding DS and that it’s actually cruel to not try feeding him things he likes AND are nutritious.

What's his BMI?

I am so fed up of people on MN bleating 'you're supposed to see a child's ribs'. Yes, a lot of children are overweight. But some are underweight and it's really bloody unhelpful and irrelevant.

I would keep an eye on it. Mine went from 50th centile for height/40th for weight to 50/5 very quickly. He is now clinically underweight.

Milk is our saving grace and I just feed him what he will eat. He never eats his lunch and still eats the same sized dinner he did when he was 8 but a pint of milk after school seems to keep him growing upwards.

I would keep a record of what he eats over a week and see how many calories he has

Not the doing well at school; many children with EDs are incredibly hard working.

I've found the concentration tends to slip much later on - starvation, for example, sets off a chain reaction of biological processes that are designed to give humans the energy and ability to seek out food.

And his family history definitely puts him at risk of an ED - that sort of dynamic is exactly the sort of thing that comes up when kids finally start disclosing their home lives.

Even your ex's reaction, seeing as he grew up in that environment, suggests that he is sensitive towards ED behaviours. He knows how his mother made him feel, after all. And whilst he's not equipped to deal with it, I think his concern is even more telling when you take into account he grew up with those sort of messages; I bet he spent his childhood being called fat, guilt tripped about eating 'oh, he's the fat one, I just don't know where we went wrong with him when his sister isn't greedy at all', 'your sister is so graceful/you're eating too many sweets and nearly bursting out of your trousers' and all that bollocks.

Vegans don't eat fish! But I'm sure that you know that...

I'd add a daily vitamin pill, just on the off-chance he's not meeting his essential daily requirements, and then probably leave him to it for now. You say he has energy, so, if he's able to keep up with his mates, he's probably just a bit fussy.

@MsJudgemental

Vegans don't eat fish! But I'm sure that you know that...

Well, yes, seeing as I pointed it out in my second post I'm sure you are sure. I was worried about my son and forget the term pescatarian, but thanks for the helpful post .

You'll have to work out his BMI. My DS is a bit like yours, he'll only eat when hungry and stops as soon as he's not hungry anymore, has never eaten cheese or butter and is thereore skinny. He had to have an op in hosp at 14 and had his BMI measured, it was 17 which was a bit underweight but nobody was concerned as it was normal for him. He did get slightly heavier in catered halls at uni, cooked breakfast everyday! But is now back to being skinny, he is just not one for excess, in any area, he would have made a good monk!
Actually, I recommend cooked breakfasts if you've got enough time, you can pre cook bacon and sausages and reheat to save time. Make sure you have full fat milk for the boys, DS1 can drink milk instead of cuppa soups, much better when they are still growing.