To think ds doesn't have an eating disorder - or does he?

[looseddaughter]

He's 11 and has always been skinny - unlike ds2 who I described as 'sturdy' when he was younger little. He's slim now but always fills out a bit before a growth spurt, while ds2 just grows steadily and never fills out. His ribs have always been visible but I must admit recently more of his bones are more prominent on his frame. He wears clothes in his age range and they fit well. His face isn't gaunt and he has a lot of energy.

He has always been quite a fussy eater when compared to ds1, who will pretty much eat anything. Ds2 likes pasta of most kinds, can be fussy about the type of bread he'll eat and leave crusts etc. Loves all fruit and limited veg. Loves the usual sweets/crisps, and likes crackers. I would say his eating has got more fussy lately and it's not unusual for him to leave most of his packed lunch, even if I know it's items he likes.

He can be fussy about eating dinner, but then often I put it down to him having crackers, cuppa-soups, fruit etc before tea. Even meals he likes (beige teas, minced beef based meals or pasta) he'll often leave a fair bit but I tend to give portions of the same size for all of us. Can usually be relied upon to eat fruit with yoghurt after. Always has cereal for breakfast with fruit and has 2 weetbix - always eaten.

Ex and I are divorced and ex is a vegan (but eats fish) who does a lot of home-cooking and bread-baking, a lot of which ds has told me he doesn't like and won't eat. In the past ds has been upset by ex's family calling him skinny and lately it seems to be coming more from ex himself. I tend to think ex should cater more for ds's likes, even if they're irritating to him.

Tonight ds2 rang me in tears as ex has told him he's anorexic. I'm livid - surely you shouldn't say that to a child? Apparently tea was a homemade pizza with anchovies, wihich ex knows ds won't eat! Why?? He loves pizza - why not just leave it with cheese?

Now ex has texted me saying he's worried about ds2 as he's 'painfully thin' and 'hardly eats with [him]' and we should see someone?

What do I reply? I admit I have noticed him being pickier and a bit thinner than he was, but I also think ex seems to make no attempt whatsoever to cater to his tastes, which doesn't help.

Any advice would be great - I'm churning here.

OP do you have access to his internet history?

I think it could be really telling. Because if he does have a problem then he would have for sure done some googling.

Even if you could just search for cup a soup and see if he’s been reading up and low calorie foods that fill you up.

If he hasn’t and it’s just normal 11 year boy stuff then no need to worry.

If you have access to his chat conversations that could also be worth a nose.

I only say this because about a decade ago my 13 year old brother self harmed. He spoke openly about it in Facebook messenger and had a friend who also did it and they encouraged each other. It was only when we started looking that we found out how bad it was. He was also on sites like tumblr where I think things like that can be encouraged, atleast they were at the time.

loose maybe speak to Ds, then have a chat with the GP for some advice.

My Ds is 6ft and 49kg. He is below the 1st percentile. He looks incredibly thin. He doesn't have an eating disorder, so at the moment we have found there is not any support available. His food intake is restricted due to low mood, sensory difficulties and a limited diet.

He is on the Camhs caseload as he is autistic with anxiety and depression but they say although they are concerned about his weight, he does not fit the criteria for the YPEDS.

I think we are going to have to contact the GP again. He saw a dietitian last year for a one off appointment but has lost 8kg since then.

I would get him checked out OP.

Your ex was being a dick, if he was that concerned why add a completely unnecessary ingredient DS doesn't like to a food DS does like? He could have made a margherita pizza for everyone and added anchovies to his own portion after serving.

Ex's family also sound food obsessed, calling DS1 age 3 fat on Christmas day and commenting on their food unnecessarily. Children do pick up on that stuff. I certainly did.

However, it does sound like your DS is filling himself up on lower calorie foods in lieu of some proper meals so I would look into it further and speak to your GP.

@Lougle

ARFID is a serious medical condition and isn't diagnosed readily. DD1 is 164cm and 37.6kg (BMI 13.9) and hasn't been given an ARFID dx.

Having said that, his diet is poor. He may be losing weight, so you need to see someone. DD1 is just starting supplements because she's lost weight over the last 3 months. She isn't deliberately restricting, just poor appetite and mood.

The trouble is that as people eat less, appetite decreases. Then they eat even less and still get the full signal. Viscious circle.

She needs to force herself to eat meals and snacks at set times until her appetite comes back. When I was severely depressed and suffering for PTSD in my late teens, I dropped to a bmi of 13.5 as I didn’t have an appetite. I was an A grade student, could walk and talk fine. However, I was very tired, my blood pressure was dangerously low and my blood count was out of whack. I’m naturally slim without watching what I eat, but this was too thin.

I was dangerously thin and doctors were worried about my bones, fertility, heart and nutritional deficiencies. I had to force myself to eat and drink enough calories.

@looseddaughter and @Lougle please seek advice from a psychologist and dietician before it’s too late. I was friends with a woman who died in her mid-20s due to complications from malnutrition.

Could you speak to the school nurse, together with your ex?

I was anorexic and I would say a big red flag is throwing food away or pretending to eat food. I would stage a plate to look like I'd eaten a bowl cereal. I would throw away my lunch, not bring it home uneaten. I was older when it started though.

Sounds like you have some of the same concerns as I have about my 10-year-old DS at the moment. Mine is normally a massive eater, relatively fussy but getting a bit less so, and for example has been eating adult meals when we go out to eat for the last year or two. But over the last six weeks or so his appetite has gone right down. We didn't worry at first because that happens sometimes, they have hungry and less hungry phases, but it has gone on way longer than not-hungry phases usually do. Last week I was finally about to call the GP about it, as his school trousers were falling down and when I weighed him I found he had lost 1.5kg. But then he suddenly started eating again last weekend, and I was really relieved - but it only lasted a few days and now he is back to eating hardly anything again. He hates it as he really struggles to get through his packed lunch but at school the whole class has to wait to go out to play until everyone has eaten a reasonable amount of lunch, so the whole class ends up waiting on him. He sometimes takes half a sandwich, a banana and a snack (eg a Penguin bar or something) and really struggles even with that. That's after maybe one crumpet for breakfast. Then he doesn't want any snacks after school (NOT like him) and will eat maybe one slice of pizza for dinner, or the equivalent. It is really worrying. He's not underweight: he's about 142cm and his weight has gone down from 33 to 31.5kg, so his BMI is on the 28th centile. I should probably try the doctor again, shouldn't I...

Stop listening to a man who calls himself a vegan but doesn’t know what a vegan is!

@DayB1day

Hugs and strength to you...
Its just the most awful illness.

I think that perhaps a conversation with his Dad to explain that calling him anorexic isn't helpful, even if it is the case. And if you do "see someone", be it a GP, dietician, will he (Dad) also take responsibility for helping DS eat the foods recommended by the specialists (ie. not fish pizza). If doctor says more red meat, carbs, and fresh F&V will his Dad agree to this?

Because it's all very well for Dad to be concerned, maybe rightly so maybe not, but most dieticians I have heard of work with the child to meal plan things they like and form a balanced diet... give them some control over it. Which Dad doesn't sound prepared to do, from what you've said.

I would be wary of pathologising this. But do definitely get him checked out. How are his bowel movements and general digestion? It's not impossible it's undiagnosed celiac disease. More probably he's just thin. Either way, puberty is just around the door and that will change everything. My husband (according to the meticulous baby book that his mum kept!) weighed 35 kg / 5 1/2 stone when he was 13! (He was also really short for his age and late to go through puberty.) He is still a thin man and always has been but really really doesn't have an eating disorder. In fact he has one of the healthiest relationships with food of anyone I know.

Now he weighs nearly 11 stone and is 6'1''. But that is from hard training in the gym, protein shakes etc. When I met him in his early 20s he weighed not much more than me, 9 stone something. At this age he ate like a horse.

Testosterone and a growth spurt will make your son much hungrier. I would concentrate on trying to broaden the range of foods that he likes and tell your daft ex to sod off and / or learn to cook. Pizza with anchovies!!

PS, does your ex have an eating disorder? Veganism is one thing, and I have massive respect for people who do it properly for ethical reasons. It's fucking tough. None of these people, btw, have young children.

I also know a vegan who eats fish. And a vegetarian who eats fish. Both of them are women with long histories of disordered eating. A real vegan doesn't eat fish. Obviously. If they 'cheat' it's more likely to be with something like small portions of butter or ghee which has lower consequences (than dying) for the animal. It's fishy to me (sorry!) to add in only a very low calorie high protein additional food group.

Sounds like maybe you need to buy some more tasty things. Cup of soup is also really high in salt. Would he drink milkshakes? Full fat milk some ice and a banana in the blender, or with chocolate powder? Nuts. Biscuits. Malt loaf. Toast and honey. Oatcakes and cheese. Full fat yoghurt (those ones that you suck out of the packet are easy to eat while doing something else). If you put a chocolate bar into his lunch box every day, would he eat it? I would do that.

My key worry from your post is Tonight ds2 rang me in tears as ex has told him he's anorexic.

There is a clearly distressed child here and their other parent is being inappropriate. The post also seems to reveal that instead of looking after your distressed DS, your ex piled in. Such discussions should happen out of the kids earshot.

Your latest post about being straight with your son is I think the best idea. Be honest, check his BMI (there is a children one), check how energetic/happy he feels, agree some food he likes. There are ways of getting facts and reassurance (GP practice nurse, etc) if only to arm your DS with answers if your ex is inappropriate like this.

I agree with PP saying people tend to forget that kids can be skinny. The weight often comes after puberty.

I think some folks aren’t bothering reading the thread. The op said her ex calls himself a pescatarian. Which would be the correct term, she just used vegan as short hand.

And this isn’t about the lad “being skinny” it’s about the fact he is loosing weight and skipping meals and the father has said he’s really worried about him. Yes saying he as anorexic was wrong, but hey we can’t all be experts when worried about our kids.

As said though I can’t understand why he’d give the boy anchovies if he was so worried, so I’d check if he actually did do that and why.

Going against the grain but I think there is a chance he does have an eating disorder. Everything you have described is very much signs of people hiding it. Becoming fussier, avoiding lunch and making excuses for not eating it, the fact he's having cuppa soups and fruit tea are both classic low/zero-cal foods so then he won't have dinner. I am not saying he is, but I do think you should not brush this off. I would be worried.

I've bought scales and will ring the GP.

The pizza definitely had anchovies on it - I could hear ds1 on the phone saying 'take them off' and ds2 saying 'I did -it still tastes of fish.' Ex is obsessed with fish and so is his family: 'Oh fresh fish, amazing...' all they bloody go on about and ds2 has been harangued there for not liking it several times. I emailed him last night and mentioned it and he hasn't said there were none.

Not saying there isn't an issue with ds but ex is a knob and definitely does nothing at all to make sure he has stuff ds likes there.

You could approach it as a relaxed open Q with your son, with a health focus. You could say for example: we have noticed sometimes you dont eat much. I know theres things you like and dont like but I just want to check that you're eating enough to fuel your body. Let's have a look at what you eat, if theres any snacks you'd like to add... etc

If you can approach this in a nice relaxed discussion way, you could then listen and pick up cues as to whether your DS is showing any worrying signs about 1) undereating (dont want to eat too much, knows about calories, likes to control intake, etc) 2) restricted food groups ("rules" around food, things I 100% do or dont eat, more severe than picky) 3) food versions (often texture related, do they feel any foods are unclean or unsafe?) or 4) body image (linking food to how I look or feel in my body). If these features pop up, you might want to have a further think about it.

So I have weighed and measured him and he is 4"9 and 31kg, which puts him on the 6th centile and NHS says it's a healthy weight. Obviously it's at the lower end but it was always going to be.

He says his dad has spoken to him about choosing his meals next time he's there (will be next week Thurs after school - Sunday afternoon) so that's good. I emailed ex yesterday saying we do need to maybe look into it but repeatedly giving him stuff he really doesn't like won't be helping, so it seems he may have taken that on board, though he hasn't replied.

I'm going to keep a close eye on it, get in better quality snacks and see how he is up to Christmas. If I still have concerns then I'll book him in. Discussing it with him it seems it really is about stuff he doesn't like and one thing that worries me is he has a tendency to 'take against' a food type if he associates it with something bad, like choking. For instance, he used to love Babybels but started refusing them a while ago after a bit went down the wrong way. He now claims they choke him, but it was really just a one off. He does eat other cheese though, so it's not that he has banned cheese as an unhealthy food.

Glad things have moved in the right direction with both your ex and DS.

I still thinks nose into his internet history will be very telling...

My sons super skinny. You can see his ribs and spine and he said before that kids comment when he gets changed for PE. He has a small appetite. Took him drs very concerned and he isn't under weight at all and they have no concerns. I agree theres so many bigger kids now it makes the slim ones look like they have an issue. Worth getting checked though OP x

Woukd not hurt for you both to sit with community diettician. Ask go to refer.
Dietician might talk sone sense into your ex snd,also advise if ds is underweight on best meals.

i could have wrote this about my son when he was 11 now 15, he does eat more varied food now over the last year but is still very skinny where can see ribs. Some people just dont eat a lot of meals (myself included, 2 meals a day max) not because of dieting but we both dont feel hungry therefore dont eat. he sounds as if he is eating healthy food such as fruit and veg (same as mine). I dont think you have anything to worry about other than his prat of a father who thinks just coming out with a statement like that is going to be helpful. If he likes cuppa soups get him to try the complan soups to help build him up with extra vitamins just to be on safe side.