Foreign Aid budget cut

[MellowBird85]

Do you agree with it?

YANBU - Yes it was the right decision to cut it.
YABU - No they should’ve left it alone.

@DillonPanthersTexas

I work in a related field so believe it or not I know that it does

I have spent a considerable amount of time all over Africa in my capacity as an engineer. Even did some NGO agency work after some training with Red R, have had numerous discussions with aid workers from the UN, US peace corps, and dozens of other organisations and while you are right money makes it to the front line the amount of waste is chronic in the extreme. Someone made the point above about expensive 4x4s and it is on the money. You might need some fully speced out £60k land Cruiser when operating in the Eastern DRC but do you really need one in Ghana where the roads are fine and you are just traveling from your residence to the office a few miles down the road.

@DillonPanthersTexas well I was responding to the post where it was suggested that no money was reaching the people it should?

I don't understand what this has got to do with the original question of this thread? What do you want me to say, that I don't agree that money is wasted? I have stated over and over, I agree money is wasted, it doesn't reach the people who need it most. That clearly needs to change.

It's completely unrelated to the question of whether the aid budget should be cut. It shouldn't be. Politicians from all parties have agreed it shouldn't be. And I agree with a PP that Andrew Mitchell in particular was very eloquent about it.

It's sad to think of the waste and corruption that means it doesn't end up reaching the people it should. Although again, let's not pretend corruption is limited to foreign aid, the tories behaviour during coronavirus shows that. As many have said, now more than ever, aid is important to the countries and people who need it.

Rainbow
You have really taken offence because I disagree with you. You made the point about vaccination, so I answered you.
No one is saying people abroad don't have issues but we can't spend so much on foreign aid this year.
The economy is screwed and taking more money away won't help it.
Having a different opinion doesn't make me stupid either but thanks for that.

@Rosebel

Having fully vaccinated children won't help them when they have no food or shelter and their parents can't get a job. We need the money for our country. If things improve then worry about other countries. Also couldn't care less if people hug their parents or not.

@Rosebel I've quoted you again, because if you can't see how offensive and callous that is, I stand by 'fucking stupid'.

To talk about people who are in such dire circumstances as thought they don't matter is, as we're talking about opinions, in my view disgusting. And frankly there's a difference between people who think the cut to aid is acceptable and the people who think we shouldn't be paying a penny. We have had a hand in causing many of the problems faced by people in LMICs and we therefore have responsibility to help people who live in the most dire circumstances through no fault of their own.

No one is saying people abroad don't have issues but we can't spend so much on foreign aid this year

The monies saves are tiny in comparison to the costs of Covid or the money poured down the drain on PPE or TnT.

But anyone who thinks the 4 billion will go to the UK's needy is naive, it will help toward avoiding any CV costs being passed on to the wealthy.

Johnson should reform FA, not cut it but no reform.

We don't know the true cost of this virus yet. It is the wise thing to do to cut the foreign aid. If people here need food banks we can't afford a huge amount of foreign aid. And India spending money on space programmes yet say they need foreign aid. It's disgraceful.

Love that serendipityjane thinks the Chinese are investing in Africa( and getting them all hugely into debt conveniently) out of a desire to see a strong united Africa which can profit from their own resources

Do you also think the Chinese just trying to improve the lives of the Uighurs by " re- educating" them?

How lucky they all are for the beneficence of the CCP!

I'm done with this thread. How is it callous to want children in this country to be warm and fed?
I'm not saying the money will go to those who need it in this country but there's more chance than if we give the money away.
I can't understand why we should give money to China when we are in such a dire state.

@Viviennemary

We don't know the true cost of this virus yet. It is the wise thing to do to cut the foreign aid. If people here need food banks we can't afford a huge amount of foreign aid. And India spending money on space programmes yet say they need foreign aid. It's disgraceful.

We have space and nuclear programs, yet have huge foodbank use, so why aren't we cutting those? We've also cut womens refuge's too.

India is a bit like the arguments on poor parenting and FSMs to hungry kids, India should do many things but it doesn't, so families and kids suffer.
If its not ok to let kids go hungry here because its "not the kids fault" why is it ok to walk away from from the worlds poor because their countries are immoral?

The cuts to FA are huge once the fall in GDP is factored in.

What a depressing thread.

Anything but tax the rich and make corporations pay their way.

@wafflyversatile

What a depressing thread.

Anything but tax the rich and make corporations pay their way.

Tax avoidance/evasion in UK was 33billion (2019 HMRC figures) many others put the figure at 89billion, based on the VAT gap.

But from a PR pov, easier to hit the Aid budget, as thats what people want in order for Sir Phillip Greene to keep his wealth.

@thebiggestmoose

Love that serendipityjane thinks the Chinese are investing in Africa( and getting them all hugely into debt conveniently) out of a desire to see a strong united Africa which can profit from their own resources

Do you also think the Chinese just trying to improve the lives of the Uighurs by " re- educating" them?

How lucky they all are for the beneficence of the CCP!

There comes a point at which motives are immaterial. The Chinese are investing quiet but large amounts into Africa - particularly infrastructure. And that is that. Good or bad it's happening.

Do you also think the Chinese just trying to improve the lives of the Uighurs by " re- educating" them?

Again, who gives a shit what anyone thinks ? It's happening, and the chances of you, I or indeed anyone doing anything about it are pretty zero. That doesn't make it alright of course. Although a country that is prepared to drown children at sea really doesn't have too high a moral ground to lecture other countries from.

The difference is we are not relying on foreign aid. It's got out of hand and it's absolutely mismanaged. Why don't those countries tax their own rich.

Based on how people on MN describe living in UK, I eould like to correct this sentence.
The difference is we are not relying on foreign aid yet.

Why don't those countries tax their own rich

A fair point, but given that it's their rich leaders who are already bleeding some countries dry, I hardly think they'll volunteer to pay more tax

There comes a point at which motives are immaterial. The Chinese are investing quiet but large amounts into Africa - particularly infrastructure. And that is that. Good or bad it's happening.

It is happening and and those infrastructure projects come at a hefty price for the local populace who are seeing their corrupt leaders sign away mineral rights, state assets and crippling their economies with unsustainable debts that come with hefty default penalties. Any notion that the Chinese are doing this out of benevolence is nonsense. It is all part of their silk road/ belt and road initiative and the projection of soft and at times hard power. Of course on this thread some people are more concerned about historical events 200 years ago.

Although a country that is prepared to drown children at sea really doesn't have too high a moral ground to lecture other countries from.

France?

I don’t have a problem giving aid abroad as long as any corrupt government is sorted first

Lol at the level of ignorance on this thread. Many of the worst dictators in Africa have been supported and propped up by the UK, turning a blind eye to human rights abuses and, purely because they paid lip service to capitalism, because the UK is scared of communism.

Anyway our own leaders are no less corrupt, although generally corruption is much rarer at lower levels of our society

Many of the worst dictators in Africa have been supported and propped up by the UK

As alluded to above most of the despots in Africa were propped up by American and Russian money during the cold War as the two ideologies fought a proxy war across the continent. The UK was largely skint for much of the cold War and was still licking its wounds after the Suez debacle to get involved in front line roles. They were happy flog arms to any regime that had the cash though, along with every other arms manufacturer in the world.

thats what people want in order for Sir Phillip Greene to keep his wealth

I have a feeling he’s not going to keep his wealth for much longer. I foresee a Harvey Weinstein style fall from fortune.

I used to live in a poor country which received a lot of aid, particularly from the US, and the sight of foreign aid workers driving around in massive 4x4s and putting their dcs in expensive international schools

On a recent trip to Liberia (a country where there is no mains electricity or running water even in the capital city and they do not even have a single facility to train doctors) the steps that we used to get off the plane were marked "US aid - a gift from the American people".

It is laughable or would be if it wasn't so tragic.

As alluded to above most of the despots in Africa were propped up by American and Russian money during the cold War as the two ideologies fought a proxy war across the continent. They were involved too, but the UK was heavily involved in supporting and legitimising the likes of idi Amin, Mugabe and others from former British colonies. The UK also supported apartheid for a long time. Perhaps the US provided most of the cash, but the UK had a lot of political power. France also interfered a lot in former French colonies.

Can anyone explain exactly how giving foreign aid helps normal working class people in this country. Please give specific, concrete examples of them being better off through foreign aid than simply saying "trickle down" or something like that. Foreign aid seems to be a racket for the rich and well connected both here and abroad.

How do the plebs whose taxes pay towards it benefit from it (more than if they hadn't paid towards it and kept that money or it went to their communities)?

Working class communities in the UK are in dire straights, live in terrible poverty and have been badly neglected over the decades and they will be the ones suffering the most here from the pandemic and its economic consequences.

I find this a hard one. I definitely don't agree with sending money to China and India but would hope the UK could help in other areas. Especially when there have been natural disasters like hurricanes and earthquakes. Sometimes though it feels as if we are ignoring the hungry family next door in order to provide food for a family in the next county. i.e. ignoring people on our doorsteps and order to look good in the next county. If you see what I mean.

A lot of these countries we help despise the uk...pretty sure we would be the last to be helped if the shoe was on the other foot. And why are these countries still in such dire states after the Money they continue to receive. Its like throwing money in to a bottomless pit.

In fact, the UK is still regarded with a huge amount of respect by people in most of its former colonies. If you go to India or Malaysia or Ghana or Uganda you will be treated with a lot more respect than people from those countries are likely to get in the UK. It never ceases to surprise me that in most cases there genuinely is no feeling of resentment.
As for why they are still in dire straits...well that is a very good question. Firstly we haven't actually given them that much money. Secondly we have also done a lot to harm them in terms of interference, assisting bad leaders, trade restrictions, supplying weapons etc. Thirdly there are some local and cultural factors that contribute to instability.

Can anyone explain exactly how giving foreign aid helps normal working class people in this country.

It doesn't.
Indirectly there may be some benefits for example we may get more foreign doctors over here than we otherwise would.
But no it is not going to raise the living conditions of the poor. However, the government does not care about that unfortunately. Foreign aid is irrelevant.

Amin was supported at first by the uk and other Western powers but that support was withdrawn when he started to move into Russias sphere of influence and his rule became increasingly batshit and cruel. Diplomatic relations were severed in 1977. Again Mugabe was supported at first as he head the legitimate successor to Ian Smiths government. To everyones surprise mugabe honoured the terms of the Lancaster House agreement and actually made a pretty start. Relations started to fall apart when he got north Korean advisors in train his army and of course his refusal to step down from power, his land reforms and slide into dictatorship.