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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Foreign Aid budget cut

266 replies

MellowBird85 · 26/11/2020 14:25

Do you agree with it?

YANBU - Yes it was the right decision to cut it.
YABU - No they should’ve left it alone.

OP posts:
Holothane · 26/11/2020 23:45

I owe an apology sorry I was in a funny mood earlier so sorry for being sensitive I’m a funny bugger some times.

Paddingtonjuice · 27/11/2020 00:42

Once the second lockdown rules came into place, this was sadly inevitable. Some people don’t seem to realise that we are all going to have to pay for it. British charities will have their budgets cut next year because we don’t have the money. My child’s SN group is on tender hooks every year whether they will receive funding. Dreading next year. The government are not going to be able to justify cutting money to british charities whilst sending tax payers money abroad.

NewLockdownNewMe · 27/11/2020 06:46

I do wish people would stop suggesting that the UK contributing to vaccine costs - whether research or doses - is somehow altruistic. It’s because in a globalised world you have to address a pandemic globally. If the poorest countries can’t afford (or won’t) to pay for the vaccine, it’ll all just start back up again. We have no idea whether the vaccine immunity lasts - this is a one shot deal where the majority of the world needs to be vaccinated in 2021 to get it under control. That’s why we’re contributing to costs, for the benefit of ourselves not others.

meditrina · 27/11/2020 06:51

We are a rich country (even when it doesn't feel like it) and global inequality is shocking.

I note that the phrase 'those with the broadest shoulders should bear the heaviest load' only seems to apply when expecting to be the recipient, not the one doing the lifting

MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes · 27/11/2020 07:15

If Corbyn had proposed building a new rail line you would so have been in favour of it. Public transport - tick. Greener than cars - tick. Provide more jobs - tick. Benefit the North not the evil southerners - tick.

Do you know where HS2 runs??

The old ‘we’re a rich country’ line comes out whenever it’s convenient. Many of the people in this country see little of it, less now than in the past, and will see less going forwards. I suspect that with the reduction in the economy after Brexit we’ll still be paying our percentage share.

MissEliza · 27/11/2020 07:20

I wish there would be some discussion in the media about how foreign aid actually gets spent. Millions and millions are squandered on inefficiencies and corruption. I used to live in a poor country which received a lot of aid, particularly from the US, and the sight of foreign aid workers driving around in massive 4x4s and putting their dcs in expensive international schools just sickened me. We really should be more aggressive about making sure foreign aid money is spent properly and goes to the people it's supposed.

meditrina · 27/11/2020 07:23

It might be an 'old line' which is 'trotted out'

UK is about 6th in terms of largest economy (depends which listing you look at), and middling in terms of per capita.

Should the rich be doing more to ease inequality? It's a fundamental question on political outlook.

DillonPanthersTexas · 27/11/2020 07:40

My understanding is that the Chinese are making huge loans to build infrastructure that enables them to get natural resources out (to be shipped to china) but if the LMIC defaults on the loan the conditions mean that the Chinese will then own that infrastructure.

Pretty much.

Both Sri Lanka and Kenya have recently handed over control of their main ports over loan defaults. Of course there was virtually zero chance of those loans being honoured to begin with and rampant corruption saw that local leaders signed up to onerous loans after they had been indirectly paid off. African leaders started oto take Chinese money as it rarely came with any good governance or human rights conditions attacked that the West insisted on.

On the ground these Infrastructure projects offer zero local employment or training. All jobs are given to Chinese nationals, even the food and water they consume comes in on a container from China. Through either my job professionally or in a leasure capacity I have visited over half the counties in Africa. I have spoken to locals, NGOs and local government officials and it is quite clear that the Chinese are utterly loathed in many parts of Africa.

Rosebel · 27/11/2020 08:41

They shouldn't be giving any forgein aid at the moment. The UK need that money now. Also does anyone really believe it all goes to help the people who need it?

DillonPanthersTexas · 27/11/2020 08:49

Also does anyone really believe it all goes to help the people who need it?

Yes, but an awful lot is wasted along the way and the process to which aid programmes are selected is seriously flawed and has been open toncorruption. Private Eye have been covering this for years, DfID needs reform.

woodhill · 27/11/2020 09:49

@MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes

If Corbyn had proposed building a new rail line you would so have been in favour of it. Public transport - tick. Greener than cars - tick. Provide more jobs - tick. Benefit the North not the evil southerners - tick.

Do you know where HS2 runs??

The old ‘we’re a rich country’ line comes out whenever it’s convenient. Many of the people in this country see little of it, less now than in the past, and will see less going forwards. I suspect that with the reduction in the economy after Brexit we’ll still be paying our percentage share.

No I wouldn't, it's an absolute disgrace whoever builds it
Pukkatea · 27/11/2020 10:15

The usual argument against foreign aid is that it doesn't go to the people who need it.

I would argue that if the money stays in this country, the people who need it here won't see a penny of it either.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/11/2020 12:00

We are a rich country (even when it doesn't feel like it) and global inequality is shocking

Absolutely - and that's why, as said, we're in the top 10 of donors and will stay there even with the reduction

I know that alleged "savage cuts" are a popular trope, but from some of the outrage over this you'd think we'd cut the whole thing to zero

FraughtwithGin · 27/11/2020 12:16

I have always had very mixed feelings about foreign aid.
Is it a hark-back to colonial/empire times?
A "soft" attempt to gain/retain economic influence in a country or region?
What criteria are applied to the countries receiving aid?
Rich country "patronising" poor country?
On the one hand I think it is unfortunate that needy people will suffer, BUT what about all the really poor children/people in the UK?
On this topic I am very much of the opinion "set your own house in order first" then look outward.

RainbowParadise · 27/11/2020 12:17

@Rosebel

They shouldn't be giving any forgein aid at the moment. The UK need that money now. Also does anyone really believe it all goes to help the people who need it?

@Rosebel be grateful you live in a country where you have access to clean water and vaccinations for your children, just for starters.

I find it amusing that some of the people on this thread saying that we should cut back or even stop aid- 'charity begins at home'- are probably the ones on here shouting at people who can't wear masks in shops or who have hugged their mum or whatever are selfish or granny killers. The irony is completely lost on them.

We are so fortunate to live in a country where we have a full childhood immunisation programme. Cutting aid will result in children in LMICs not being vaccinated in some cases. Whilst we in the UK are gearing up to begin the first round of coronavirus vaccines for people who are well past the life expectancy of this country, never mind LMICs.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 27/11/2020 12:20

Is it a hark-back to colonial/empire times?
A "soft" attempt to gain/retain economic influence in a country or region?

My native country is in and we had nothing to do with colonisation. If anything we were usually the occupied ones. Not by UK though. We had no sea😁
There is quite few countries like that on donor list.
Not everything is about UK specifically...

jasjas1973 · 27/11/2020 12:31

@Puzzledandpissedoff

We are a rich country (even when it doesn't feel like it) and global inequality is shocking

Absolutely - and that's why, as said, we're in the top 10 of donors and will stay there even with the reduction

I know that alleged "savage cuts" are a popular trope, but from some of the outrage over this you'd think we'd cut the whole thing to zero

Well, its around a 30% cut.

What will go? might be a better question than the cut itself.

I would have preferred to have waited until the commons report on FA use was published, see where the waste and corruption is occurring and then reallocate/cut.

Rosebel · 27/11/2020 12:33

Having fully vaccinated children won't help them when they have no food or shelter and their parents can't get a job.
We need the money for our country. If things improve then worry about other countries.
Also couldn't care less if people hug their parents or not.

Aweebawbee · 27/11/2020 12:51

I thought that foreign aid was just a sanctioned way of paying back-handers to secure trade contracts.

I remember when they threatened to pull funding from (I think) India, they threatened the UK with cancelling billions of pounds worth of trade agreements. A huge market to lose.

RainbowParadise · 27/11/2020 12:51

@Rosebel

Having fully vaccinated children won't help them when they have no food or shelter and their parents can't get a job. We need the money for our country. If things improve then worry about other countries. Also couldn't care less if people hug their parents or not.

Read it back and honestly see how awful you sound. Fucking hell.

Theworldisfullofgs · 27/11/2020 12:51

I think the outrage on here is because its clear lots of people would love yo cut it to zero without having the foggiest about the implications of that.

Biker47 · 27/11/2020 12:58

Didn't go far enough, should be close to 0 until we're sorted.

Cheeseboardandmincepies · 27/11/2020 13:03

YANBU. Should of been cut to 0 percent. Why are we giving India aid when they have their own space programme? Money should and could be spent on far better things.

thegcatsmother · 27/11/2020 13:12

This is John Redwood's take on it, and I can't disagree with some of it.

John Redwood's Diary
Three cheers for overseas aid

Posted: 26 Nov 2020 09:13 PM PST

I am glad the UK spends money on ships and equipment that go to assist countries facing flood and tempest. I am in admiration of our medics and armed forces when they sometimes go to help treat and contain dangerous infectious diseases abroad. I am pleased the UK as one of the leading and richest countries of the world helps alleviate and tackle poverty in the developing nations.

The UK should set out what it can do and what it is good at, and should be generous where need arises and where we have the means to help. I want to see reform of our budgets and our activities in these areas so we achieve more with better value for taxpayers.

I went along with the Conservative leaderships’ support for hitting the 0.7% target of GDP, though I have misgivings about such targets. I do not think we should commit to spend a certain proportion of a fluctuating and usually growing number. We should decide on spending on a case by case basis and against our general budget background. We do not pledge to spend a fixed proportion of GDP on health or education or policing, but look at those budgets in the light of needs and costs. I trust the government will now repeal the 0.7% pledge in our law codes.

Labour will doubtless oppose such a change. They averaged under 0.4% of GDP on overseas aid in their period in government 1997-2010, despite pretending to support the international commitment to spend around twice as much as they managed. They never explained why during all those years they did not do what now they say we must do. Those who want to see more overseas aid spent might do better to lobby the EU and its member countries who spend together well below the 0.5% the UK is now indicating as a new temporary level.

Last year the UK again spent 0.7% or £15bn on overseas aid. £10bn of this was spent on projects and activities we chose along with the recipient country in so called bilateral aid. The balance of £5bn was spent by our giving the money to the EU and other multinational bodies to spend as they saw fit in so called multilateral aid. As we leave the EU it is a good time to bring our overseas aid spending back in house and decide on how we can best help those in need. We should also look at the full support we give, which goes wider than the items allowed under international conventions to be called Overseas Aid. Some of our Defence expenditure is aid, being used to help bring peace to strife torn countries and providing assets to tackle disasters.

I want us to identify the areas where we have most expertise and can do most to help. Maybe the UK should specialise in a few areas like the provision of clean water to each home, the provision of primary education to all girls as well as boys in poor countries and the roll out of programmes to tackle infectious diseases.

We should follow certain guidelines. The money should for preference be spent in the country we are trying to help, using as much local labour and skills as possible. Where we need advanced country inputs these should usually come from people and companies based in the UK. We should work on the principle that it is better to teach a hungry person to fish and farm for themselves rather than sending them food parcels. The aim is to get countries out of poverty, not into dependence. More trade is often of more help than more aid.

It will be great to see us achieve more by concentrating our efforts in areas where we have most to offer, harnessing public and private sectors together, and taking control with more programmes we run for the benefit of the poorer countries. .

timeforanewstart · 27/11/2020 13:31

Yes its right to cut it this year , just make sure the remaining goes to countries that really need it and to those that actually use it correctly