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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

“Don’t get married if you’re a financially independent woman”.

258 replies

Lucidas · 24/11/2020 14:24

Is this the advice we should be giving to young women? I have a female friend who is convinced of this - going through a divorce at the moment and she is aggrieved at having to lose a big chunk of her earnings - held down a full time job as a mother, still covered the majority of child rearing, is the higher earner and with a layabout husband.

Women are often told to get married for ‘protection’ but surely it’s no protection to get married to a lower earner, someone with fewer assets, or one of the many cocklodger specimens we come across on MN.

The response could be to say that she simply married the wrong person, but it’s not always apparent how people will change down the line.

OP posts:
Lweji · 24/11/2020 17:46

@Hopoindown31

I think if we are going to advise higher earning women that marriage isn't for them, we have to accept that the advice goes both ways. That means more unmarried lower earning or financially dependent mothers at risk of being cut off by their partners.
Or don't have babies if your partner earns more but won't marry you. Well, dump him.

But more fool the man who marries a woman who expects to be kept, TBH.

2bazookas · 24/11/2020 17:50

Eckhart

@andtheHossyourodeinon

*Again, thats the man you chose to marry. I made a better choice, so that's not at all true for me

You seem to be missing a vital bit of very obvious information, which is that people don't knowingly marry people who are going to shaft them, and the shafters keep it hidden until the deed is done.

Don't forget, you could still end up being surprised by your husband. *

    True, But you seem to be missing the point that a financially independent woman can easily dump the rat, and  has no need to stay in a failed marriage.
Hopoindown31 · 24/11/2020 17:52

Or don't have babies if your partner earns more but won't marry you. Well, dump him.

But more fool the man who marries a woman who expects to be kept, TBH.

A more fool the woman who married a man who expects to be kept as well.

It is obviously clear that we should all look for partners who earn more than us to marry and none of us should marry anyone who earns less than us. I think that will sort it out...

allthegoodusernameshavegone · 24/11/2020 18:01

Utter rot, surely all women are financially independent, who is funding these women before they meet men, 🤦‍♀️

TowandaForever · 24/11/2020 18:04

@Inthemuckheap

Gold digger?!

Eckhart · 24/11/2020 18:06

@andtheHossyourodeinon

Yeah, this place is full of stories of how the perfect man turned into a lazy abusive layabout, and the women just had no clue at all.....what a load of bollocks. You can guarantee everyone else around them could spot him a mile off from the start

Divorce is quite common, as is a partner or spouse not turning out the way you would expect. Do you disagree, and think that most marriages are made in heaven and turn out exactly as planned? Divorce statistics alone prove you wrong, and that goes without mentioning unhappily married people who stay together. It's far from a load of bollocks, and could happen in any marriage, including yours.

Notadramallama · 24/11/2020 18:06

I own three houses mortgage free. There is no way I'd get married and risk losing half of my assets on divorce.

Littleideasbigbook · 24/11/2020 18:11

This is why I will never remarry @Notadramallama

Don't fancy giving my kids inheritance to any man thanks. I worked so hard to buy my house independently after the shitshow with their father. It would be a dis-service to them if I gave away 50% of that hard won independence.

thepeopleversuswork · 24/11/2020 18:14

Yeah, this place is full of stories of how the perfect man turned into a lazy abusive layabout, and the women just had no clue at all.....what a load of bollocks. You can guarantee everyone else around them could spot him a mile off from the start

Really. You seem very authoritative on this subject. Do share your superior intelligence.

Attictroll · 24/11/2020 18:16

Totally agree - I have often felt that all those threads which say marry for protection are behind the times with the reality of modern relationships and increasing female finances. Everyone needs to judge their situation accordingly based on understanding of what marriage is. I love dp deeply, we have DC etc but no way am I marrying to find myself losing my assets and giving away my savings. I love him now and I am in no way financial motivated in general - buy 2nd hand, budget etc but why should he have it if we break up.

Porcupineinwaiting · 24/11/2020 18:22

@Eckhart my friend tells that story. The truth is he was always a selfish tosser, she just didnt notice when she was all loved up. The shine only wore off once she was struggling to manage a job, two small children, the house and the dog (that he wanted but then wouldnt help with). I think the chance of an actual perfect person suddenly morphing into an abuser, a layabout, a lazy fucker is actually pretty slim. The warning signs are usually there.

PrtScn · 24/11/2020 18:25

@AgentProvocateur

The same could be said to financially independent men. The higher earner usually comes off worst in a divorce.
But a financially independent man wouldn’t be lumbered with all the kids after and during probably wouldn’t do as much “woman’s work”
CHiPS1971 · 24/11/2020 18:25

Op this happened to me. I married 23 yrs ago , a man who had only debts. I had a home,which i sold and used as a deposit on our married house. We divorced some yrs later and he basically got half of everything as i was higher earner.

I rebuilt my life and then met someone else and " ring fenced" all my assets. Just as well as we separated 15 yrs later. All my ring fenced assets are now safe for my DC to inherit and i easily rebuilt a life. My DC's ( 2 boys ) have witnessed this and are aware that their inheritance is now also ring fenced,meaning if they marry, any money they bring into marriage ( my money passed down to them) is ring fenced. Any subsequent money and house equity my DC's accrue with their spouses is of course shared, but, my DC's know that the money they receive from me and the money they accrue through their own successes, before marriage, is their own and not shared ,if relationships fail.

My exes and i have all just spent over £3k combined, protecting our joint finances and properties for our shared boys. Any of us remarry, what we have as of todays date ( date of any possible marriage) is not avail or brought forward into new marriage.

We had an incident 2 yrs ago where my first husbands grandfather died. He had remarried after the death of much beloved grandmother. A long marriage where DGM had worked her finger to the bone to provide for her one and only son, my ex father in law. DGMinL passed and GDinlaw remarried , his 35 yrs younger " carer". GDinL did not amend his will and new wife and her 3 children inherited the lot . Not even married a year. Dear FIL ( son of DGMIL) was not even allowed into the house to retrieve DGM's personal effects and her beloved perfume bottles. His own mothers personal effects . Yes, stupid GDinL but cautionary tale. DGM perfume bottles are somewhere now in Birkenhead.

Myself and my exes are determined our children will be protected and the money and properties we have earned, acquired and worked hard for , will benefit them and only them and in turn their children and only their children. This experience and my early experience , that DH1 now sees , he benefitted from, has made us all revaluate all our assets and our DC's futures.

Our now grown DC's are more wise and grateful their inheritance is ring fenced. Anyone who enters into a relationship with my DC's will be aware of this. Our properties will not be theirs and their future prosperity will be determined by their own endeavours as ours has been acquired by us.

We all 3 parents grew up in council housing. We now have a combined clear cash no debt wealth of £900k for our sons to inherit. All our mothers and grandmothers worked as cleaners , caterers , sch dinner ladies, tea ladies and typists, since the 1930's until the late 90's. Their efforts and investment in raising us, have led us to achieve this .

We now pass this on to their grandchildren and great grandchildren. Every asset in this family is protected. Any successful and independent young woman who enters our family will already have her own assets and secured her future. Should any marriage fail is a sadness and my sons would support appropriately .

But, to think that the 3 combined homes of us parents and our savings and investments would transfer 50% to wives when we leave this mortal coil, no.

All assets ring-fenced for our 2 sons, then their children in the form of a trust. It does cost a lot to arrange this. But, at least we know our family is protected.

AgeLikeWine · 24/11/2020 18:25

“Don’t get married if you’re a financially independent woman” = “Don’t get married did you’re a financially independent man”.

It works both ways.

Candyfloss99 · 24/11/2020 18:26

Yep marriage and of course divorce is only ever about money.

Purplecatshopaholic · 24/11/2020 18:29

Defo the advice I would give - to any person. If you marry and are the higher earner, you absolutely are going to lose out financially if you divorce. (Not so if only living together). Marriage protects those who are financially weaker - not saying that’s a good or bad thing, just that it’s a fact and needs to be taken into consideration. I have my own house, pensions, savings, etc (because I have a job, no family money!) I got fleeced when I got divorced, thanks to the weird naively romantic notion marriage is about love rather than finances. It won’t be happening again.

Eckhart · 24/11/2020 18:30

@Porcupineinwaiting

I don't know what all this talk of abusive lazy layabouts is? The thread is about financial independence and the split of finances in marriage/divorce. A partner doesn't have to be lazy and abusive to take half the assets in a divorce.

Wickerbaskets · 24/11/2020 18:32

But marrying someone you love and are suited to at 30 and remaining suited to and in love with them for the next 40 years are two different matters.

So are marrying someone of equal financial footing to you and expecting it to stay that way indefinitely. Your spouse could become chronically ill or disabled, they could find themselves unable to cope with the demands of their job, they could find the bottom drops out of the market they work in. There is no guarantee that someone who starts as your financial equal will stay that way. That’s why traditional marriage vows contain the phrase ‘for richer for poorer’.

If you're not thinking about how the marriage and having children will impact your life and your finances at all you're walking into something absolutely blind.

I don’t disagree, I just don’t think it should be the only consideration. There are reasons to get married which go beyond financial protection, and if financial protection is the only or most important consideration, you may well be setting yourself up for a marriage which is doomed to fail (or missing out on what may be a lifetime of wedded bliss, depending on what financial decision you make...).

Trickyboy · 24/11/2020 18:33

Let me tell you a story..

My best mate met a man when they were in 6th form college. She was studying child care and he was doing A levels.. she got a job in a nursery and he got a job in a 'city' bank as a post boy..

2 years later she was deputy at the nursery she had worked at for a year. He has become a trainee banker (whatever that meant) .. they moved into a rented flat together..

She became pregnant at 22.. not a disaster.. even though her DP ideally wanted her to abort - but went with the flow.. he got a good promotion and was able to apply for a mortgage. They bought a little 2 up 2 down terraced house.. she didn't want to leave the baby. He said fine.. she said 'but I would like to get married' .. he said ' no babe.. my parents were married and the divorce was horrible.. we are happy let's just stay as we are .. ' ' I don't believe in marriage' ..

Fast forward 20 years ... 'D' p has become a 'Vice President' of the bank.. they live an extremely comfortable life. There are now 4 dc.. there are skiing holidays , holiday homes in Croatia.. (with Yachts!) .. he is generous, never controlling with money .. credit cards in his name but cards given to her .. the kids are all through private school except one that is nearly 18... everyone at UNi .. dad is paying , no student loans...

He leaves the bank and sets up own venture capitalist business. Goes to Dubai on business. Meets Katerina .. a 25 year old Latvian.. yes you guest it .. full blown affair . Tells best mate that it's over - because Latvian is Catholic and her parents don't like her having a relationship without being married...
Within SEVEN WEEKS of telling best mate , they are MARRIED .. within 8 months there is a baby... (smart move Latvian !) ...

Best mate was entitled to ;

Child Maintenance for ONE child under 18 based on a start up business with no accounts .. £17.24 per week.

No claim on house - not married.
No claim on savings despite enabling his career for 25 years..

Right now best mate lives in a housing association 1 bed flat . Husband and Latvian (and baby) live in former 1.5 million former marital home. .. she works in a garden centre and claims Universal credit to top up her wage and pay her rent.

The kids see both of them.. Mum because they love her.. Fad because he bribed them with money ..

I can't write it large enough DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN WITH A MAN WHO REFUSES TO MARRY YOU !

PrtScn · 24/11/2020 18:34

@dontdisturbmenow

So men should agree to marry to protect their partner financially when these more but women should protect themselves and refuse marriage when they earn more.

That's not a sexist attitude at all!

As I’ve already posted, the women will almost always Come out worse when children are involved. They will usually end up having to do the brunt of the childcare and house work even if both partners work f/t and if they split they will end up with the kids and the associated extra costs and less free time than the man who will usually just pay a pittance in maintenance and get to play Disney dad at weekends.
IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 24/11/2020 18:37

I’d like to see prenups become legally binding in the UK so that assets are protected by both sexes. There could be clauses re working part time or not at all as many do it in reality without partners agreeing or understanding the implications it may have.

Wickerbaskets · 24/11/2020 18:39

My DC's ( 2 boys ) have witnessed this and are aware that their inheritance is now also ring fenced,meaning if they marry, any money they bring into marriage ( my money passed down to them) is ring fenced.

What do you mean it’s ring fenced? What legal mechanism have you used for this? I would be wary because it’s quite hard to impose enforceable conditions on what happens to your assets after you die and they have passed to the beneficiary. I would be surprised if a clause in your will stating that money left to a beneficiary couldn’t become a joint asset with the beneficiary’s spouse was enforceable.

Chewbecca · 24/11/2020 18:45

I’m the primary caregiver and the higher earner. DH earned more than me when we married and when DC were little. As they grew up & I increased my hours & got promoted, my earnings overtook. Different profession with more potential. He’s always worked just as hard, if not harder than me in terms of working hours, he’s no slacker. My pension is also significantly larger.

My advice would be financially independent but if do you plan for one of you becomes dependent on the other, do so consciously of the financial impact and this is when marriage is needed.

If I lost my DH, I would never marry again due to the financial implications.

UsernameChat · 24/11/2020 18:48

I agree with your friend and think everyone should sign a pre-nup and UK courts should enforce them.

theBelgranoSisters · 24/11/2020 18:49

@Lucidas this was me-I wish id thought a bit more about exactly what I was doing at the time-what I was giving up, what Id lose if the shit hit the fan.
I'd never put myself through it again having spent a number of years getting back to where I was financially and mentally as a single parent. How could my life possibly be enriched? Marriage/monogamy most definitely isnt for everyone.
I value what I have far too much to compromise.
The thought of waking up next to the same person for another 40 odd years, let alone sharing a kitchen, worrying about who's doing chores/pulling their weight and just having to share my free time, and be available 24-7 emotionally and physically, urghhhh gives me chills what a waste of mental energy!
Marriage to me is basically a skewed financial transaction and extremely restrictive to women. As an aside I also dont know anyone IRL who would say they have the marriage they thought they were buying into, most moan constantly about their husbands shortcomings and many of my female colleagues past and present think its unusual to be long term single and happy?!

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