Women Priests

[Karatema]

I've just been having a Twitter argument with a man who believes women should not be Priests!

He's added me to his list of "bores", which is fine by me, because I think people like him belong in the past. AIBU?

I'm sure MNers will tell me if I am.

@donquixotedelamancha

Religion may have had it's place 2000yrs ago to attempt to explain the unknown but in a modern world its little more than guys in dresses and pointy hats believing in fairy tales.

We had Science for that 2000 years ago, I don't think the purpose is any less relevant now. Religions are about explaining the why rather than the what.

I don't personally see a need for that either but we're in a small minority as humans go. Doesn't worry me if people want that- I'd rather they went for RC than most other available options.

I'm a sucker for a hard magic system so I pay vague interest to the rules, much as I do with other hobbies I don't partake of- like D and D or Warhammer.

Religions aren't about explaining anything.

Religions are about conning the gullible with false promises / threats and providing a crutch for those unable to accept their own mortality.

Religions are about conning the gullible with false promises / threats and providing a crutch for those unable to accept their own mortality.

Surprisingly popular and reproducible if that's all it is. I agree they can be used for that (as can many things) but are you so sure the people who participate get nothing from it?

I would have thought providing a crutch for people unable to accept their own mortality would be both important and valuable. But that may be because I don't see a struggle with the physical body as being a sign of innate moral inferiority.

You don't need to be Christian to help people - you are strawmanning there.

The point I'm making is religion gains power by indoctrinating people with beliefs that are almost certainly false.

@BathTangle

Their Uteruses might fall out. Their boobs would get in the way of the candles!

A C of E woman priest I know was told in all seriousness that one of the reasons women couldn't be priests was because many churches don't have loos and women couldn't just nip behind a tree in the churchyard the way a man can....

Fortunately even the most ardent of the 're should preserve historic buildings exactly as they are' enthusiasts now acknowledge the need for toilets (though they may push for them to be in a structure in the churchyard). So this should doon drop of the list of spurious excuses not to allow female vicars/priests.

I'm a Catholic although I don't get to church very often. I'm a firm believer that - priests should be allowed to marry, and women should be able to become priests.
They were allowed to marry up til the medieval /middle age but the church only put a stop to it so that priests would leave any wealth to it rather than their wife and family.
The number of priests is dwindling so I think its something that will need serious consideration in the future.

[quote Toddlerteaplease]@Viviennemary me too. I don't have any issue with them in other denominations, and know they do great work. but really don't want them in the RC church. And I can't even give a good reason why not! [/quote]
Because there is no good reason.

In the Catholic Church women can’t become priests because it’s doctrine. That will never change but it allows converts (married, usually have children) and women have a place in the church with new serving roles available to men and women (and boys and girls as alter boys/girls). Women can of course be nuns.

What I disagree with is letting women become reverends but not allowing them a more senior role as bishop. I think that’s total hypocrisy.

*The Catholic Church (at least in this country) is desperately short of priests.

Which is odd, because they've got loads. You hardly ever see a mass without at least one.
The Quakers and the Baptists hardly have any but will the Catholics share?*

Can't speak for Baptists but Quakers don't have priests at all. Elders yes, but they're not clergy.

Possibly very unpopular opinion: I think religions have the right to set their own rules within reason. They don't have to have female priests, they can also have doctrine that says birth control, abortion, sex before marriage, gay marriage etc is wrong.

People are then free to choose if they want to be a member of that church or not.

Church and state must also be separate- so, for example, I fully support gay marriage in a legal sense, but also support the right of any religious group to not be forced to officiate them in their building due to their religious belief. (I do not agree with the belief, mind you).

What amused me with the women priests (and bishops) was that up to the point they were allowed in the CofE, Catholics and Catholicism was The Worst Thing Ever. But as soon as they had women priests "inflicted" on them, suddenly a load of CofE vicars decided they would rather be catholic priests. A very strange and sudden about turn on the ol' doctrine there.

YANBU; I think he’s wrong, but don’t give it a second thought- not worth caring what some man on the internet thinks about your opinion.

Deborah is my favourite of all the judges. Judges 4 and 5. A prophetess, judge and a preacher, if you wanted a scriptural example to prove that God does use women in leadership.
Esther is the ultimate mediator too, if you wanted one of those!

Actually the Christians I know all accept their own mortality. They make the most of their time here by serving others and trying their best to support the lost and least. Food banks, street pastoring, visiting the elderly, running children’s groups or living their vocation as teachers or in the NHS. Don’t be so fucking patronising.

You don't have to be Christian to be a good person and help other people.

this is the reason I don't go to mass. If I'm not good enough to be a priest, then... fuck them.

@Warpdrive

Deborah is my favourite of all the judges. Judges 4 and 5. A prophetess, judge and a preacher, if you wanted a scriptural example to prove that God does use women in leadership. Esther is the ultimate mediator too, if you wanted one of those!

That's assuming you believe in the unproven claims that the bible/ Koran etc make.

I agree letting women become vicars but not bishops and archbishops isn't quite right. So if Catholics did allow women priests they would be able to be pope. It will never happen. It's doctrinal. Women can't say mass therefore can't be priests.

If he is a catholic then he's not unreasonable to follow the accepted wisdom of his religion. You're not unreasonable to disagree with it.

Many organised religions aren't that great for women, scrape the surface and the misogyny is rife, more fool women for subscribing to the nonsense.

Why can't women say Mass?

@Maireas

Why can't women say Mass?

Because religions are sexist and the boys want to keep the best jobs for themselves.

If any private business was as sexist as the church it would be shut down instantly.

@AnotherNameForChristmas

Possibly very unpopular opinion: I think religions have the right to set their own rules within reason. They don't have to have female priests, they can also have doctrine that says birth control, abortion, sex before marriage, gay marriage etc is wrong.

People are then free to choose if they want to be a member of that church or not.

Church and state must also be separate- so, for example, I fully support gay marriage in a legal sense, but also support the right of any religious group to not be forced to officiate them in their building due to their religious belief. (I do not agree with the belief, mind you).

I don't think that is or should be an unpopular opinion, but it misses the point.

Aside from partisans (like those who seek out threads about religion to insist religion is nonsense), people mostly get involved in these debates about doctrine and practice because they feel it affects them.

It's no good telling me that 'religions' have the right to set their rules. I'm a C of E Christian in a Church that believes - officially - that I am a sinner; until a few decades ago, my Church believed women couldn't be priests.

It is a failure of understanding of religion to think that it's a 'free choice' to be part of a Church, I think. If you think something is true, you think it is true. You don't choose to believe it, do you?

I think our clergy is a roughly 50/50 split between men and women. Our Vicar in charge is a woman. We also have a female Bishop.

@Viviennemary

I agree letting women become vicars but not bishops and archbishops isn't quite right. So if Catholics did allow women priests they would be able to be pope. It will never happen. It's doctrinal. Women can't say mass therefore can't be priests.

What will happen if a woman says mass? Will her boobs catch fire?

SarahAndQuack, I think that's a really interesting question. It's too late for me to be coherent now, but I do find theology and religion really interesting. I don't think faith is a choice- but I do think that being a member of a sect (eg Baptist, Catholic, methodist, whatever) is more of a conscious choice, especially if someone joins as an adult.