Schools should close for 2 weeks after the Christmas mixing

[OverTheRainbow88]

I think that schools should remain closed for face to face teaching 2-3 weeks after the end of the period in which Boris will allow families to all mix.

I don’t want to be in a classroom with 30 different kids 5 times a day who’ve mixed inside with all different family members and friends.

I say online learning until mid Jan, if Boris will allow us all to mix at Christmas

And that data is obviously out of date. Two year groups out at my school this week - none last.

I suspect this week's figures will top 1 million. Maybe someone will notice then??

But you can’t compare the work a dentist does to teaching a classroom of children, unless you’re giving your students an up-close examination of their mouth. Do you get close enough to see down their throats for an extended period of time? It’s been a while since I was in school so maybe things have changed...

OP if you have such an issue with going into work and doing your job after Christmas maybe speak to your Head and if you’re still not happy, phone in sick. I’m sure there’ll be a supply teacher who is happy to cover while you hide at home.

@GettingAwayWithIt

But you can’t compare the work a dentist does to teaching a classroom of children

Yes that was my whole point, you can’t compare jobs 🙄😂!! I said numerous times it’s impossible to compare.

No I won’t hide at home, thank you. I’ve not missed a day yet since March. In fact I’ve been going into my school to do supply on my non working day to cover absent staff. I taught year 11 physics last week... really not my area of expertise.

Our school can’t really use supply, thanks for the suggestion though. It’s a very unique place with a lot of social and emotional needs and the kids don’t respond well to strangers. It’s also very expensive for a school to just ‘get in supply’.

If your school is really the kind of school you’re suggesting it is, do you really think the parents of the children you teach will be reckless enough to be mixing with everyone they know over Christmas?

Or if they are the reckless type, how do you know they haven’t already been mixing since March while you’ve been in work every day?

@ancientgran

Izzy nurses in hospitals might be working, at my local surgery they've said they are bored to death as doing so little work.

I think nurses, police officers, supermarket staff all have some sort of protection, PPE, screens etc. GPs seem to be doing most consultations on line. Teachers seem to be alone in being expected to work without any protection, they are also in often small rooms with 30 teenagers for extended period of times. From what we hear those teenagers are more likely to be asymptomatic than the general population so more likely to have to share rooms with people with infections.

I think what teachers want is a level playing field. I'm not a teacher but feel sympathy for their position.

Exactly this. Thank you

Comparisons shouldn’t be made as the situations are so different it’s pointless

Why are they so different?

Healthcare workers didn’t sign up for a pandemic either, but we carried on working (most of us without any PPE initially). There was no talk of closing wards or acute inpatient units or staff lobbying for an extra long break when households could mix. We just got on with it.

Your dentist (and the GP example) are in the minority of healthcare workers who wear full PPE. I work on a busy ward with a high turnover of patients, with just a surgical mask to ‘protect’ me. If a patient has a positive covid test we get a visor, overall and gloves when giving personal care eg swabs or close contact... but that’s it. And the ward windows aren’t constantly open as the patients would freeze.

Why is teaching so different to the many other jobs where covid exposure is a daily risk?

My daughter (2) goes to a private nursery while I go to work. She’s been going throughout lockdown while I’ve worked in a hospital. She’s in a bubble of other children but the nursery staff don’t wear PPE and obviously get involved with personal care for the children aged 0-4. Should they demand the nursery closes after Christmas? Some parents may have been mixing over the holidays, what if one of the children pick something up? They won’t be wringing their hands and demanding that the nursery shuts - because they’ll lose income and therefore wages. But teachers get paid regardless.

Honestly I used to be so defensive of teachers, I certainly wouldn’t like to do their job. But when you read some of these posts you lose a lot of sympathy.

Healthcare workers didn’t sign up for a pandemic either, but we carried on working (most of us without any PPE initially). There was no talk of closing wards or acute inpatient units or staff lobbying for an extra long break when households could mix. We just got on with it.

Didn’t we all go into pretty much total lockdown to protect the NHS?

@GettingAwayWithIt

My son goes to a similar nursery, he’s in a bubble with 9 others... can’t compare that to secondary sorry.

@OverTheRainbow88

Do you get as close to your secondary students as your son’s key worker at nursery does to him and the nine others?

The lockdown was to prevent ITU from becoming overwhelmed with patients, not to protect NHS staff.

We won't be mixing this Christmas. Just a quiet festive period at home, just the 3 of us. Therefore, it would be a bit annoying for us to have DS at home for a further 2 to 3 weeks, especially as his class are already lagging behind and the amount of homework sent home in order to help them catch up is astonishing.

The lockdown was to prevent ITU from becoming overwhelmed with patients, not to protect NHS staff

Agree. And by the time lockdown happened, covid was already out of control, spreading like wild fire and all NHS staff were at risk! ICUs and acute inpatient wards were at full capacity. The lockdown wasn’t to protect NHS staff, it was to try and free up beds for members of the public who needed them. NHS staff faced exposure daily (and still do).

@RattleOfBars

The lockdown was to prevent ITU from becoming overwhelmed with patients, not to protect NHS staff

Agree. And by the time lockdown happened, covid was already out of control, spreading like wild fire and all NHS staff were at risk! ICUs and acute inpatient wards were at full capacity. The lockdown wasn’t to protect NHS staff, it was to try and free up beds for members of the public who needed them. NHS staff faced exposure daily (and still do).

Not really true if all the medical staff become ill who will treat the patients? Xmas is about bringing money in as far as Borris is concerned then by Jan we will be back to hospitals been over run again

I think if too many medical staff became ill they would just encourage people to go back to work regardless of covid status like they did in Belgium.

@Whydoelephants

I think this is quite a good idea tbh, could the two weeks missed be added on at the end of the summer term so they get 4 weeks holiday in the summer when hopefully cases will be lower. That way, kids don’t miss out on education, teachers aren’t run ragged trying to run online lessons and the classrooms are safer for teachers, children and families.

Other than those trying to do A levels or GCSEs perhaps.... they lost enough time trying tolerances them by PowerPoint last year thanks

• to learn

I’ve de registered my kids and the stress that has released. I realise that not everyone can do this. But I’m so glad I don’t have to worry about these things anymore.

@RattleOfBars

Comparisons shouldn’t be made as the situations are so different it’s pointless

Why are they so different?

Healthcare workers didn’t sign up for a pandemic either, but we carried on working (most of us without any PPE initially). There was no talk of closing wards or acute inpatient units or staff lobbying for an extra long break when households could mix. We just got on with it.

Your dentist (and the GP example) are in the minority of healthcare workers who wear full PPE. I work on a busy ward with a high turnover of patients, with just a surgical mask to ‘protect’ me. If a patient has a positive covid test we get a visor, overall and gloves when giving personal care eg swabs or close contact... but that’s it. And the ward windows aren’t constantly open as the patients would freeze.

Why is teaching so different to the many other jobs where covid exposure is a daily risk?

Because teachers have NO protection unlike everyone else. Secondary teachers are in prolonged close contact (they can't stay 2m apart - not enough room) with a couple of hundred teenagers. I am a TA. I am in close contact with 32 children. I perform first aid, I help with toilet accidents,I serve and collect up their school dinners, I sit right next to children to look at their work/hear them read. No matter how often we wash hands, children being children, they put their fingers up their noses 2 minutes later, then they love to hold hands with me. Children do get COVID and do spread it to staff. Everyone else gets some firm of PPE or distancing or screen or, in the case of shop workers or waiters, only very short contact time. We would just like the same protection afforded to us as everyone else gets. We don't want schools to close - we want them to be safe.

Children have lost enough schooling already.

I really tried to stay 2m apart today. But between the kids mucking about, the half a dozen with ASN who needed some help with their work, and the generally-just-want-some-attention ones I could not stay at the front. I wear a mask near the pupils: they do not return the courtesy. I don't know how to minimise risk and still do a decent job.

We would just like the same protection afforded to us as everyone else gets. We don't want schools to close - we want them to be safe

I agree you should get the same protection afforded to other workers.
But I’m afraid a surgical mask, gloves, pinny and visor won’t give you much protection. Healthcare workers get ill with covid frequently, most of us recover although everyone in our trust knows of a few colleagues who tragically died after getting it. All were in high risk groups.

We can’t enforce the 2m rule with our patients any more than you can with infants. Screens won’t work in a school any more than in a hospital unless you’re a ward clerk or receptionist. Healthcare workers also deal with toilet accidents (and other bodily fluids), we’re in close proximity to patients for extended periods of time and often have to sit and feed those who are too unwell to feed themselves. For these jobs we get plastic aprons, gloves and the standard surgical mask. Unfortunately these don’t give us much protection. We get scrubs too but scrubs are mostly so we don’t accidentally bring covid in from home, and so we can wash them on high temperatures.

We only get a visor and a fitted mask if a patient has tested covid positive and we’re giving personal care. Or if an untested patient is likely to spit at us or needs a nasal/oral swab.

Wearing a surgical mask all day is stifling, muffles your voice and makes you feel breathless. It’s more to protect others than us, in case we’re asymptomatic carriers of the virus. Covid particles can easily pass through surgical masks although it reduces the risk a little bit eg if we cough or sneeze or they do.

Handgel and ventilating rooms is one of the most effective strategies to reduce risk.

To make a school anywhere close to ‘covid secure’ Infection Control would have to limit numbers of people per room, including staff rooms. So you’d only be allowed to take your mask off to eat in an empty room or socially distanced in a large canteen. Not sure if that’s possible in a school? It’s not a case of just wearing the mask for lessons then taking it off in the staff room.

I think it’s inevitable some teachers will get covid and be off sick, like healthcare workers (many of us have had it, often with minimal symptoms). Many will get cold-like symptoms then be fine to come back and teach once the isolation period has passed.

I’m afraid it’s one of the risks of the job in a pandemic.

Yes I think they should go blended for at least 2 weeks after xmas. I cannot understand why they don't for secondary students.

Mistressiggi Wed 25-Nov-20 17:57:49

I do not think you or any ta or teacher can do the same job to the same standards and that should go without saying an no one should expect it.

I can’t believe that the voting is practically 50/50 spilt and I can see the rest of the country are equally spilt too.