Schools should close for 2 weeks after the Christmas mixing

[OverTheRainbow88]

I think that schools should remain closed for face to face teaching 2-3 weeks after the end of the period in which Boris will allow families to all mix.

I don’t want to be in a classroom with 30 different kids 5 times a day who’ve mixed inside with all different family members and friends.

I say online learning until mid Jan, if Boris will allow us all to mix at Christmas

Totally agree.

In the wards I know of the standard is surgical mask, pinny and gloves. Scrubs offer no protection per se whilst you are wearing them, they are worn for ease of effective washing not as an infection barrier as such, and I think many ward staff aren't wearing them but normal uniforms on the non covid side of things (which of course doesn't guarantee there are no Covid patients as yet undetected!)

Visors protect from body fluid splashes - hence why we wear them doing AGP's. A lot less protection against respiratory diseases, the only real cast iron protection is FFP masks.

Yes my postie friend does spend long periods in sorting offices with lots of other people, with pretty minimal protection. Teachers really aren't the only ones. Flimsy surgical masks are no magic bullet believe me.

A pandemic this year was of course unpredictable, but teachers picking up illness at work isn't new - as I said upthread my mum picked up all sorts throughout her long teaching career. She always regarded it as par for the course.

She always regarded it as par for the course.

This is not “par for the course”.

Well there have been pandemics before - mum worked as a teacher through the 1960's flu pandemic, the awful flu season around the millennium (as did I in nursing) and Swine flu (which my then toddler DD managed to catch!)

IFR of COVID is now estimated as between 0.3% to 0.49% using ONS stats, I shall have to look up the IFR of normal seasonal flu. IFR does rise with age etc so the IFR for lower age groups is lower.

@HipTightOnions

They choose to mix, they take the risk.

But then they pass on the risk to others - classmates and teachers- who did not make that choice.

THIS!!!!!

our son currently self isolating and missing GSCE lesson time because someone decided to take a RISK and posted a video at the time to prove it!! angry does not even cover it!!!!!

@HipTightOnions

The good news is that cases are now plateauing and even decreasing, even with schools open

Are they going down in schools though? We are getting more cases by the day.

Our area has had 100 more cases this week than last week. It's a small place and knowing how many are out of school isolating I'd say most of it is older school pupils and their teachers.

@Izzy30

There were lots of people wanting half term to be 2 weeks long. So an extra weeks holiday.

So people, not teachers?

I don't understand why people are so desperate for schools to stay open but are so reluctant for teachers to have any protection. It is so illogical, if the teachers are all off sick there is no education.

It's madness isn't it?

Couldn’t agree more with you OP it’s common sense

@Vintagevixen

Well there have been pandemics before - mum worked as a teacher through the 1960's flu pandemic, the awful flu season around the millennium (as did I in nursing) and Swine flu (which my then toddler DD managed to catch!)

IFR of COVID is now estimated as between 0.3% to 0.49% using ONS stats, I shall have to look up the IFR of normal seasonal flu. IFR does rise with age etc so the IFR for lower age groups is lower.

I think Covid has 10 times the IFR of flu (too many hours listening to Dr John Campbell).

I am desperate for my ds to stay in school. I have no issue with them having ppe.

Our rates have halved in the last week, as have the majority of areas nearby. If you look at many areas, even those with previously high infection rates it’s the same story. It is worrying that a few areas have increased this week though.

It's like saying 'I have every right to drive and it is good for my children to be in the van'.

Of course it is good for them to be in the van. All the teachers agree. They are simply pointing out that van makers / owners / drivers should take safety precautions with the van and that there is a thumping great cliff edge ahead which the van is speeding towards.

In the wards I know of the standard is surgical mask, pinny and gloves. Scrubs offer no protection per se whilst you are wearing them, they are worn for ease of effective washing not as an infection barrier as such, and I think many ward staff aren't wearing them but normal uniforms on the non covid side of things So the GP has more protection as she was also wearing a visor and head covering and of course she was only seeing one person who had had their temperature taken, supervised using sanitiser, and answered a questionnaire, most of her appointments that day were by phone or on line. A few patients one at a time with protection bit different to 180 kids, 30 at a time for an hour with no PPE (even if it isn't perfect) no temperature taken, no one checking hands are clean, in most classrooms probably no chance to be 2 metres apart. Hilarious that the school is a couple of roads away from the surgery and conditions are so drastically different. If you get a prescription and go into the pharmacy they only allow two people in at a time, you have to stand behind a yellow line on the floor and they are behind a perspex screen you have to wear a mask and they wear a mask, visor, apron and gloves.

Why do you think school staff should have the worst protection possible? Some jobs will be impossible to make safe at any time, locally two fishermen lost at sea this week, but does that mean we just all have to have the same dangers. I mean sewage workers work in shit but would you be happy if your boss diverted the plumbing into your workplace on the basis of why shouldn't you have the same conditions?

Doesn't your postie spend a significant part of the day delivering post, I know mine does.

If a teacher wants to wear a mask and a visor and gloves why shouldn't they? Forget the sewage worker, the fisherman, the nurse, just tell me why teachers can't take steps to protect themselves.

@Starlightstarbright1 I am desperate for my ds to stay in school. I have no issue with them having ppe. A sensible and pragmatic view, I hope you get your wish.

Ancientgran, a decent surgical mask may protect the teacher, but gloves , plastic pinny and a face visor is unlikely to do anything other than be extremely uncomfortable. Covid is not absorbed through the skin, so a teacher would be better off with some hand gel on her desk and use it regularly. The pinny would just act as another surface for covid. If I was a teacher I would just get changed into different clothes at the end of the day.

@Vintagevixen. Whilst I accept that your mother and others were and are willing to take risks (angels, heroes or cannon fodder, depending on your point of view), many of us aren’t prepared to take such risks - and by all means, call me a coward. I do, however, think the right thing to do is fight for what you believe. I teach. I’d prefer to teach in school. I want to teach in school with measures put in place to keep me and my family safe.

In my opinion, children wearing masks would help to do that but there are other valid opinions. Christmas (or rather the aftermath of Christmas) needs to be thought about carefully if we all really do want schools to remain open.

Do we think people will stick to the 3 households exclusive bubble for 5 days?

I predict... no!!

Well all I can say is if schools go back in Jam with no extra measures in place the whole system is going to crash nationally. Bubbles will burst constantly, teachers will go off sick or be at home looking after their own kids who’s bubbles have burst, some teachers will go off with stress.

Happy Christmas!

Yes it’s hard for lots of different types of workers at the moment, this thread is about schools and school staff, We don’t need the comparison, it won’t help anyone. You could start a thread about them. I am lobbying for school closure For 2 weeks if the PM Insists it’s ok to mix families for Christmas. Bubbles will burst throughout Jan, if the plan of mixing goes ahead. Your children will miss school regardless.

Comparison does help, because it highlights how other people are managing to attend work in risky environments, and have been doing so since March. Why should teaching be any different?

No bubbles have burst (yet) at my child’s school. But yes if people mix a lot of Xmas there may be bubbles bursting. I’m anticipating that and have already cancelled my student for Jan just in case I need to take time off. But what’s the point of closing ALL schools and bubbles for 2 weeks when only some bubbles will burst?

Because we have little or no protection apart from open doors and windows plus masks on corridors. I teach 6 classes and 4 have had positive cases. I've interacted with those pupils in confined spaces with no masks allowed in the classroom. I go shopping and Im expected to wear a mask at all times and keep my distance. All we want is better protection

I appreciate what you’re saying, and yes I think you should have PPE. Although teaching in a mask may be rather difficult, I work in a hospital and half the patients can’t hear me through even a surgical mask. I worked through the pandemic at work, when no PPE was provided. Even now we have only scrubs and surgical masks most of the time. We have covid-positive patients on our ward, plus patients who are confused and can’t social distance. And some who have covid symptoms but negative tests (testing being so unreliable). And a high turnover, so every day I’m exposed to around 10 new patients awaiting covid tests. But NHS treatment is essential, the public pays for it via taxes (like education) so why is education not viewed as essential too?

The question is, what will all those key workers do when their child’s bubble constantly bursts in Jan? Those children will not be allowed in school as key workers kids if their bubble has burst. That’s a more scary scenario.

IF their child’s bubble constantly bursts. Key workers don’t automatically get school places if the school shuts, not all schools offer this. And wraparound care doesn’t happen if the school closes! A lot of keyworkers rely on wraparound care (7am-6pm instead of 9am-3pm) so if schools closed they would still have to take time off work. And many of those are doctors, nurses, care workers, emergency service workers so they’d be leaving the NHS short staffed for those 2 weeks.

Dont know about other schools but we don’t go back until 6th January so that’s 10 days from the 27th anyway. And to be honest in the people we will be mixing with (grandparents) I think the risk is more the other way around ie our kids more likely to pass to them

Comparisons shouldn’t be made as the situations are so different it’s pointless.

I had an emergency dentist appointment, I was asked on the phone if I have any covid symptoms, they then emailed me The paper work to fill out online before my appointment. I arrived rang the receptionist from outside and waited where they came and took my temp. I put on a mask, sanitised my hands and went in. The dentist was in full PPE ( which I paid £60 for) with the windows fully opened. He was wearing such PPE he probably would have survived a nuclear war!!

Comparing that situation to a school where there’s 1,700 kids is ridiculous.

You can’t even compare primary to secondary as the experiences are so different.

This is our local school 3 weeks into a lockdown...!

And that school doesn’t have a 6th form hence nothing mentioned about year 12s and 13s!

There are apparently 900000 children currently not in school due to Covid. And that's with lockdown!