Schools should close for 2 weeks after the Christmas mixing

[OverTheRainbow88]

I think that schools should remain closed for face to face teaching 2-3 weeks after the end of the period in which Boris will allow families to all mix.

I don’t want to be in a classroom with 30 different kids 5 times a day who’ve mixed inside with all different family members and friends.

I say online learning until mid Jan, if Boris will allow us all to mix at Christmas

"But then they pass on the risk to others - classmates and teachers- who did not make that choice."

Which is why I said that in particular the first 2 weeks is unreasonable. They are passing it on to other people who are also choosing taking the risk. I do not see why my son's asd special school should shut to enable families to do things that families like mine don't choose to do even in ordinary times.

Especially given that children like mine cannot learn remotely.

It seems that most of the "I'm alright Jack's" on here do not live in high risk areas, have children who've had none or one period of self isolation, few or no cases in school, and children not in key exam years. I can see why there is no urgency for action.

But for the rest of us, with cases mounting in schools daily, more than 8 weeks spent in SI during exam years and our children actually catching the virus, then we deserve more than the gaslighting this Govt is giving.

Vintagevixen, there were problems with recruiting teachers even before this started, if all the teachers who find it too much follow your advice and resign, who will teach your children?

Which is why I said that in particular the first 2 weeks is unreasonable. They are passing it on to other people who are also choosing taking the risk.

No, I mean that when they return to school straight after Christmas they will be passing it on to people like me and their classmates who have not been taking any risks.

I don’t think the idea is that schools should shut to enable people to party. I think the idea is that they are going to do it and operating remotely (where practicable) for two weeks would offer some protection.

I don’t think teachers come across well when they try to promote closing schools/having extra holidays. I’m an ex secondary teacher and can’t imagine wanting kids to be stuck at home attempting online learning rather than teaching them. Children have a right to their education and I’m shocked at how there are people quite happy to take that away from them.

I get that things are scary now but as many have said nurses are still working, supermarkets are still open and the police are still going etc. Non of those people suggest closing down their places of work because of the virus. Some services are essential to society and I’m afraid schools are included in that.

@Possums4evr

Not all public sector workers are "in it together" many are working at home just now. I would not swap my job for that of a police officer. I think we all deserve more concern shown for our safety though. Incidentally a have a dc very keen to join the police when he leaves school but worried as his dyslexia might make him fail the entrance tests, so it's very positive to see it hasn't held you back from joining.

I actually think me dyslexia makes me better at my job as my audio recall is fantastic and it enables me to see the whole of an investigation. Best of luck to him

I don’t think teachers come across well when they try to promote closing schools/having extra holidays.

I think “extra holidays” is an invention of yours, Izzy30

From the OP:
I say online learning until mid Jan

Izzy nurses in hospitals might be working, at my local surgery they've said they are bored to death as doing so little work.

I think nurses, police officers, supermarket staff all have some sort of protection, PPE, screens etc. GPs seem to be doing most consultations on line. Teachers seem to be alone in being expected to work without any protection, they are also in often small rooms with 30 teenagers for extended period of times. From what we hear those teenagers are more likely to be asymptomatic than the general population so more likely to have to share rooms with people with infections.

I think what teachers want is a level playing field. I'm not a teacher but feel sympathy for their position.

I do see the logic and think it’s probably sensible, especially as rates are higher than summer holidays already.

However the practicality and the lost time (especially for exam years) I don’t think it’s achievable, even though the result is then intermittent isolations which are worse as they are unplanned

@HipTightOnions

I don’t think teachers come across well when they try to promote closing schools/having extra holidays.

I think “extra holidays” is an invention of yours, Izzy30

From the OP:
I say online learning until mid Jan

There were lots of people wanting half term to be 2 weeks long. So an extra weeks holiday.

@Possums4evr

Vintagevixen, there were problems with recruiting teachers even before this started, if all the teachers who find it too much follow your advice and resign, who will teach your children?

I know that, there are also problems with nurse recruitment in my area (critical care) even before the pandemic.

I don't want any committed inspirational teacher to leave the profession of course. But if you choose to enter a job, you should realise you need to do the job. If you perceive the risks as too large, then you are unable to fulfil your job.

I would also be very wary of the introduction of regular, widespread online learning - if the government decides that this is a substitute for a portion of actual teaching, and that can save costs in the future...it sets a precedent.

There were lots of people wanting half term to be 2 weeks long. So an extra weeks holiday.

1. You have raised this on p29 of a thread about something else.
2. Surely you don’t seriously think that people were suggesting a 2-week break because they fancied a bit of extra time off?

Desperate clutching at straws.

"I think the idea is that they are going to do it and operating remotely (where practicable) for two weeks would offer some protection."

I think the pretence that all children can be taught remotely needs to be dropped. You can't teach teenagers who a functioning at early years and younger, remotely. Switching to online learning for 2 or 4 weeks means they get no education or therapies from school for 2 or 4 weeks. My son's school have said that it is impossible and they are right.

@ancientgran

Izzy nurses in hospitals might be working, at my local surgery they've said they are bored to death as doing so little work.

I think nurses, police officers, supermarket staff all have some sort of protection, PPE, screens etc. GPs seem to be doing most consultations on line. Teachers seem to be alone in being expected to work without any protection, they are also in often small rooms with 30 teenagers for extended period of times. From what we hear those teenagers are more likely to be asymptomatic than the general population so more likely to have to share rooms with people with infections.

I think what teachers want is a level playing field. I'm not a teacher but feel sympathy for their position.

Your general level ward nurse who is not doing AGP's in areas such as critical care wear PPE of....a surgical mask (Not FFP), a plastic pinny and gloves. Hardly a hazmat suit!

They are often working 12 hour shifts in bays of patients, having close contact etc.

Believe me the protection is minimal for them. Don't believe (though anyone who knows better please feel free to correct me!) that police have much beyond a surgical mask either? Plus supermarket workers behind the scenes eg. warehouse workers, food production line workers, how much protection do they really have from the other people working in confined spaces?

My friend is a postie and their protection is basic too. I really don't think teachers are alone in this.

But if you choose to enter a job, you should realise you need to do the job. If you perceive the risks as too large, then you are unable to fulfil your job.

Yes of course we should all have predicted there would be a pandemic and that teachers would be denied the protections mandated for other workforces

I would also be very wary of the introduction of regular, widespread online learning - if the government decides that this is a substitute for a portion of actual teaching, and that can save costs in the future...it sets a precedent.

No one thinks online learning is ideal. It’s suggested as a temporary “least worst” measure during an emergency. (Can’t believe that needs spelling out.)

My friend is a postie and their protection is basic too. I really don't think teachers are alone in this.

Is your friend the postie spending 5 hours in a crowded room with 30 other people with no masks? I do hope not.

I think, rather than the disruption of further school closures, people should start in a lockdown over Christmas to keep the numbers lower and keep people safer.

I do however think they will close schools a week earlier at Christmas.

I think the pretence that all children can be taught remotely needs to be dropped.

That’s why I said “where practicable”, Sockwomble.

No one has pretended remote teaching is suitable for all children, but it is perfectly suitable for many temporarily, in an emergency. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

One of my children is a nurse, I know what they wear thank you. I also know if you manage to get to see a nurse or doctor at my local surgery you have to wear a mask, use hand sanitiser under supervision, answer a questionnaire about your possible covid symptoms, you then go into a room where the HCP wears scrubs, mask, visor and gloves, that is to see one person not 30. The fact remains that even if protection for others isn't perfect for teachers it is non existent. I have been told that in local schools teachers are not allowed to wear masks, they can't insist children wear them in communal areas and they teach upto 180 a day. I don't know if that is national, I'm sure teachers could tell us.

How often does your postie friend spend an hour at a time in a room with 30 others, repeated 6 times a day?

I don't understand why people are so desperate for schools to stay open but are so reluctant for teachers to have any protection. It is so illogical, if the teachers are all off sick there is no education.

I forgot on top of the scrubs, mask, visor and gloves they also wear a plastic apron and a disposable hair covering, not sure what they are called.

There were lots of people wanting half term to be 2 weeks long. So an extra weeks holiday. Wasn't that some politicians and scientists saying we needed a two week "circuit breaker" or whatever the slogan was at the time.

Do you moan about people on furlough having months of extra holiday?

My school is currently seeing a rapid increase in positive cases. Before lockdown we were in tier 1 and had had only one case. Now, although we are only sending home “close contacts”, we have large groups isolating at home from 5 out of 7 year groups.

If this is happening during lockdown, what will happen after a Christmas free-for-all?

Data re school attendance...

Ancientgran I don’t think the hair covering is typical outside covid wards. The plastic pinny is rubbish. The face shield generally has to be reused by all members of staff and probably not worth wearing after constant use. We have the blue surgical masks that most teachers could wear if they really wanted to. I get why they wouldn’t want to though. It’s better to wash hands regularly then wear gloves, most people don’t realise this unless touching bodily fluids or toxic drugs.