Ban on new petrol/diesel cars by 2030 - AIBU to be excited?

[almostautumn]

The government are set to announce a ban on sales of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030. As someone who lives in a polluted city (London) and worries about the effect that carbon emissions are having on my family’s health, I’m so excited by this news because I think it will really change our children’s lives for the better. And it’s fantastic that it’s only 10 years away!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54981425

The carbon footprint on making electric cars is massive. Plus the batteries don't last the life of the car, so extra batteries need to be made and disposed of, which is far from carbon neutral.

Hehe but the batteries are made in China and the electricity is imported from Europe by interconnectors therfore UK doesn't count it towards UKs carbon emissions and will claim a net zero by 2050.

It's ridiculous.

I will never own an electric car. I live on a farm. No way will electric cars ever have enough grunt to get up our hills in winter, the batteries take up way too much boot space, they’re all ‘style’ over substance.

I understand a move in urban areas towards electric cars but in a rural one? Pathetic idea.

Have you heard how quiet they are? More opportunities for pedestrians to get run over as you can't hear them coming, kids will run out in the street.

I don't think it'll happen. If it does the price of electric cars has to come down massively, I got an SUV recently and I looked at going electric, the extra cost was unaffordable. Pushing the idea that you'll be saving over time does not help in the present.

Carbon footprints for electric cars are just as bad as a pp mentioned. And on the point of silent cars, they used to be silent and in fact my neighbours is completely silent until manufacturers had to start fitting acoustic sound systems for safety but only around 2019

It won’t happen

@Imonaplane Don't get confused with PHEV's and EV's Fully electric cars all have a noise, and have a noise by law.

PHEV's and that oxymoron the "self-charging" hybrid are petrol cars using a very complicated drive train to get around emissions laws. Personally wouldn't touch them as tech is too complicated, and they don't generally have the emissions or mpg figures stated.

Have you heard how quiet they are? More opportunities for pedestrians to get run over as you can't hear them coming, kids will run out in the street.

They are very quiet! Which is great in some ways as noise pollution would be vastly reduced. If pedestrian safety was an issue though, I imagine they could easily be fitted with some sort of device that plays noise when the car is in motion, so people could hear them coming.

@Jkrowling92

Not happy. Who’s going to be able to afford all this. Another way to demonise the poor as far as I’m concerned.

But surely 'the poor' don't usually buy new cars? Second hand petrol cars will still be available.

I think this deadline is just what is needed to ensure that the infrastructure is improved. I know one of our local supermarkets has charging points for electric cars but I'm not aware of any others in the area.

I'm certainly considering an electric car, or at least a hybrid, next time I buy (our main car is 15 years old so I expect to replace it in the next couple of years). I would like them to come down a price a bit first though.

I wouldn’t get too excited OP, there will be existing and second hand petrol/diesel cars on the roads for many years to come surely?

Caveat - I am no engineer and maybe this idea is perfectly ridiculous - but I have been wondering if a lot of the charging problems couldn’t be resolved by building the batteries so they can be swapped out.

So you don’t need a dedicated charging point with enough space to park a car, you just take out the battery pack and plug it into a socket. If you need it, you could have 2 packs to swap between so one is always fully charged.

Also hybrids are going to be banned too aren’t they, which I was surprised about

Clearly the appropriate infrastructure needs to be put in place. But it’s not like the entire country will suddenly switch to electric in 2030. It’s a ban on new petrol/diesel car sales from that date, which means that in practice we have a lot more time than 10 years to get our ducks in a row (to use a very Mumsnetty expression!)

10 years until ban on new petrol/diesel cars

• 15/20 years (approx) life for last ones sold. = 25/ 30 years before there are none left on the road.

I agree that BJ needs to give his magic money tree another shake and get on with it!
Here’s an idea, why don’t we start with say... London? 🤪

@bionicname that’s a good plan in theory but I suspect the batteries are humongous and not very portable.
Be nice if it was just like my little shark vacuum battery though 😂

@Winterwoollies

I will never own an electric car. I live on a farm. No way will electric cars ever have enough grunt to get up our hills in winter, the batteries take up way too much boot space, they’re all ‘style’ over substance.

I understand a move in urban areas towards electric cars but in a rural one? Pathetic idea.

? I am actually wondering if you have seen an electric car? The batteries aren't in the boot - they are in the floor pan. Yes, there isn't a "land rover" equivalent with low ratio gears, but I have no problems getting my car(s) up to my relatives welsh farm....on a hill....in the rain or ice. It's a car, pretty much like any other car. It's not a land rover though.

@DiddlySquatty

Also hybrids are going to be banned too aren’t they, which I was surprised about

It's because they are essentially a wolf in sheeps clothing. Just to get round emissions and when they run in real life they aren't any better for the environment. Just massively complicated.

I wouldn’t get too excited OP, there will be existing and second hand petrol/diesel cars on the roads for many years to come surely?

True, but it’s a massive step in the right direction!

Also hybrids are going to be banned too aren’t they, which I was surprised about

Some hybrids will still be allowed apparently, according to the BBC article.

The price will have to come down a lot for ordinary people to afford them. If you need a reliable, fairly new car and not an old banger, there's no way you could afford an electric one at the moment, especially bearing in mind that an older one might also need a new battery.

Charging infrastructure will also have to improve. What do you do if you live in a tower block? You can't dangle an extension lead from the 12th floor to charge your car up overnight.

I’m really excited about electric cars becoming the norm.

10 years is a really long time in terms of technology developmental by then charging infrastructure and technology will have improved a lot and prices will have come down. They’re all beyond my price reach (not that I’d be buying new anyway) right now, but I can see it all happening sooner rather than later. This sets some certainty over timelines, which is really helpful.

Some quick thoughts on what I think based on 20 years working on energy/climate (rather than an ev specialist):
-Hydrogen probably isn't the best solution for small vehicles, but will get used for lorries, long distance buses, some rail and marine
-The cost of EVs will continue to fall and distances increase. On the point about maintenance I have an old hybrid - it has done >150k miles and still nothing wrong with the bloody thing except the scratches from my driving and hardly any garage bills over entire lifetime! EVs are probably better still.
-Work is already underway to make the batteries from more sustainable materials. Similarly funding for infrastructure will provide more charging points. Not sure about flat charging but saw something about charging from lampposts.
-there is likely to be more nuclear production via small reactors, but we're not looking at more coal/fossil production - much more likely to be more off-shore wind plus energy storage at a large scale (e.g. hydrogen, liquid air) which can be put into the grid as electricity when needed
The grid needs to be upgraded to allow for the increase in electricity use (which is why I prefer the idea of some hydrogen for heat as well as heat pumps for heating rather than your current gas boiler but that is a whole other discussion). It also needs to be smarter so we can optimise when batteries are charged (and released =vehicle2grid) amongst other things.
-the EV change will have a massive impact on city air quality which is needed outside London (as well as in London). Micro-mobility solutions are also coming fast plus walking so definitely agree about needing investment in walking/cycling infrastructure.
This is all needed and thank god we are making some progress. Looking forward to COP26!

Petrol and diesel cars won’t be banned in 2030, only sales of new petrol and diesel cars so those who wish to hold on to their P and D cars can until they run them into the ground.

Infrastructure will have improved by then and the cost of electric cars will gradually fall as new models enter the market.

I’ve had a little chuckle to myself about all the ‘it’s great for London, sod the rest of us’ comments. I’m certain that if the government had announced that all sales of new P and D cars will be banned in London, Manchester and Birmingham (i.e major cities only), those same posters would be ‘why do the government only care about the lungs/health of people in London?!!’

I think vehicles needed for agriculture (and military, and mountain rescue) might continue to be manufactured. But they will be a niche product and probably even more expensive than they are now.

And I think people will look after their single fuel cars if they want to put off buying a hybrid/fully electric so perhaps total car sales will dip. Which is not so good for manufacturers, but excellent for the environment

I don't live in London but I don't see this as a London issue at all. Many people who live in London don't have cars because they don't need them and there is nowhere to park them.

I lived in London for nearly 20 years and only had a car for the last 3 when we lived in a part of zone 6 that didn't have a London postcode.

The good news is we will still be in lockdown then, so the absolute headache of how everyone is going to charge their cars won’t be an issue.

Petrol and diesel cars won’t be banned in 2030, only sales of new petrol and diesel cars

Actually, I'd be willing to bet the date will end up being put back. There's no way we'll get the infrastructure in place to support this in less than 10 years.

In the UK a lot of electricity comes from fossil fuel burning power stations (40%). Renewables account for another 40%. Nuclear is the other 20%. So I'm not sure about the capacity to generate enough electricity through "clean" means if everyone has an electric car. As PP have said, a charging station for everyone seems unrealistic. Flats? Terraces with on street parking? Those who live ruraly? Heck, a house we are looking to buy has parking but it is the other side of the road (albeit not a busy one), so you would have to do some serious ground work to get electricity over there. As an aside, we use hydrocarbons a lot so we would need to find a lot of alternatives to mix them altogether? Where does it stop? Are we going to stop using asphalt on the roads? What about gas cookers, will they be banned? Or burning logs in you fireplace? Or vaseline? Anything made of plastic? Toothpaste, soap, insect repellent, paint, lipstick, aspirin? Heart valves are made from hydrocarbons too...