Is DD being dramatic or AIBU

[Tempbbp]

Would really appreciate some thoughts on this. I don't want to minimise DD's health condition, but I wonder whether she should just get on with it?

DD31 was recently diagnosed with autism. She's not got an intellectual impairment, but she's struggled with mental health and anxiety all her life. She works, but she's been off sick for two months with anxiety. She was also off last year. She lives with her wife and their house is always a mess.

DD is saying that she can no longer cope with her job and fears she'll end up having to resign, as she can't find any of the help she needs in both her home life and career. She's tried anti-depressants and access to work, and says neither were successful and she can't cope. She claims that the GP can't offer anything else, and that waiting lists for therapy are really long, but that therapy is unlikely to be helpful because it wasn't when she tried at 18.

I want her to be happy, but she's always up and down and it makes me think sometimes that perhaps she just needs to get a grip. I know that sounds horrible, but looking at the state of the world as it is, she's smart and capable, but always thinks the worst and believes there's no way out. If the GP says they cannot help her beyond medication and therapy, could it be that she just isn't engaging with them enough? Is there something else that can be done or other help available? I don't want to see DD unemployed and I'm really worried she'll just quit her job with nowhere to go. I don't know much about this so apologies if I've said something offensive.

The help available on the NHS is really shit.
Could you support her to go private?

www.autism.org.uk/

i have a link to autism on line training which may help you too

www.hee.nhs.uk/our-work/learning-disability/oliver-mcgowan-mandatory-training-learning-disability-autism

You absolutely need to read up on how autism manifests in women and how radically different it is from what we think of as 'classic' autism. You really also need to work on your empathy, not only because it will make you a better person but because it will also enable you to support your daughter better.

The more I learn about how autism works in females, the better my almost 18yo DD is supported and the better things are for her - we work together to identify triggers and coping mechanisms. She's now confident of being able to manage at uni next year because she has an arsenal of coping techniques. Your daughter has come late to her diagnosis and she has all that yet to learn. You could be an enormous help to her, but only if you change your mindset.

If the state of her house bothers her and/or her wife, an Occupational Therapist might be able to work with your daughter around some of the aspects of how to organise herself and her space / sequence tasks. What your daughter has is an "executive functioning" problem - not laziness or anything else.

Sometimes the easiest way to pay for things is with money, and if one of them is really bothered by the house, then a weekly/fornightly cleaner (who is recruited with the expectation that they might have to do some tidying as well as cleaning) may help them to keep their home in a state they find better for them. [if they're not bothered by the house, it's not really anyone else's problem]

Your daughter may need to shop around to find a therapist with expertise in autistic adults - there are different theoretical models for therapy and different models work better for different people. There's also a fair bit of research around the need for a good quality of working relationship between the individual and their therapist. There are therapists in private practice who could help and probably others available at a lower cost via charities. It's worth her thinking about what didn't work with the last therapist to work out what she's looking for in a therapist now.

Others have talked about autistic women masking - this is a big thing.

Job wise - join a trade union and get some help from a disability rep re getting actually useful support from Access to Work - they can fund specialist mentoring, training for managers, taxis and various other things. Practically, even if she thinks she'll ultimately leave this job, it's worth trying out different things that might support her in the workplace now - either they'll help enough she feels happier there and is willing to stay until she's ready 'job wise' to move on. If not she'll have a list of things she knows don't work.

I get being considerate and helpful, but the outside world is not that kind. She'll still need to function in this world. Maybe it makes me the bad guy, but the idea of everything DD worked hard for now being in vain is upsetting. She resigns and checks out of life because she can't cope? What kind of life is that for her?

It won't make her happy and I know she doesn't want to do that, otherwise she would have done it last time she went off sick. If I tell that it's ok, that she doesn't have to continue doing this I'm telling her in essence that there's nothing we can do. That she's disabled and that nobody can or wants to help her keep her life together. I understand working less or not at all is what some people need, but I know DD and is not who she is. She always carries on because she wants it so badly. A degree, her own place, a car, a fancy job, a marriage. Nobody forced these things on her. When she isn't feeling bad all she talks about is her career ambitions and her hobbies.

It doesn't seem like the NHS is much help and private is an option maybe, but I wouldn't even know where to start. Because she says there is no help it makes me think why not?

I think the problem with her job is that they are nice, but there isn't any structure. Her boss speaks to her once a week by telephone. I tell her to talk to her boss, but she says it's exhausting for her to be the one to call. I don't know if she's being unreasonable here. She complained last week that when she's in work, but doesn't do anything for a couple of days, nobody notices. I struggle to understand that, surely either you do some work or you go and watch TV and be happy you don't have to do much. I understand that maybe I'm being ignorant which is why I'm here, but it's exhausting for me too. The whole thing makes me feel useless.

@Tempbbp

I get being considerate and helpful, but the outside world is not that kind. She'll still need to function in this world. Maybe it makes me the bad guy, but the idea of everything DD worked hard for now being in vain is upsetting. She resigns and checks out of life because she can't cope? What kind of life is that for her?

It won't make her happy and I know she doesn't want to do that, otherwise she would have done it last time she went off sick. If I tell that it's ok, that she doesn't have to continue doing this I'm telling her in essence that there's nothing we can do. That she's disabled and that nobody can or wants to help her keep her life together. I understand working less or not at all is what some people need, but I know DD and is not who she is. She always carries on because she wants it so badly. A degree, her own place, a car, a fancy job, a marriage. Nobody forced these things on her. When she isn't feeling bad all she talks about is her career ambitions and her hobbies.

It doesn't seem like the NHS is much help and private is an option maybe, but I wouldn't even know where to start. Because she says there is no help it makes me think why not?

I think the problem with her job is that they are nice, but there isn't any structure. Her boss speaks to her once a week by telephone. I tell her to talk to her boss, but she says it's exhausting for her to be the one to call. I don't know if she's being unreasonable here. She complained last week that when she's in work, but doesn't do anything for a couple of days, nobody notices. I struggle to understand that, surely either you do some work or you go and watch TV and be happy you don't have to do much. I understand that maybe I'm being ignorant which is why I'm here, but it's exhausting for me too. The whole thing makes me feel useless.

Well if its exhausting for you as an outsider ,imagine how it feels for her who is living it.

Seriously... you seem to go out of your way to show how whiny and unreasonable she is and how hard this is for you.

She's lived like this for 30 years!

You do sound totally disinterested in why your DD is who she is. Perhaps its your own guilt for missing the issues. I dont know but she cant just snap out of it or get a grip. The parents I deal with at work are screaming out for support for there DC including adult DC. They do not treat them like you do. I feel sorry for your DD

I get being considerate and helpful, but the outside world is not that kind. She'll still need to function in this world. Maybe it makes me the bad guy, but the idea of everything DD worked hard for now being in vain is upsetting. She resigns and checks out of life because she can't cope? What kind of life is that for her?

Do you know what? This actually makes me really fucking angry.

Some people just can't function in this world, no matter how badly they try. No matter how badly they want something. Their brains don't work properly and no, they really can't cope. As an autistic person, she's done incredibly well to manage so far. She has a marriage, a home and a job. That's a hell of a lot more than most autistic people manage. Many never work, never live independently and never have a meaningful relationship with anyone. Your daughter has achieved SO SO much and all you can think of is that it was all for nothing.

I understand working less or not at all is what some people need, but I know DD and is not who she is. She always carries on because she wants it so badly. A degree, her own place, a car, a fancy job, a marriage. Nobody forced these things on her. When she isn't feeling bad all she talks about is her career ambitions and her hobbies.

Have you never once thought that maybe she DOES want those things, her autism means she can't actually cope with the reality of them? She's lived this way for 30 years - that's one HELL of an achievement and you should actually be incredibly proud of her for what she's overcome so far.

Autism is so fucking draining. Every day is a battle. And now you think all her battling has been in vein because after THIRTY YEARS of struggling, fighting and masking, she's finding it all too much?

And I know I sound like an arsehole,but it's becoming more and more apparent why it took 20+ years to get a diagnosis.

You sound very unsupportive so maybe the best thing you can do for her is just back the fuck away and leave her alone.

As frustrating as it is the mindset is part and parcel with the mental health issues, it's not a separate issue.

In order to "get a grip" she needs to find successful methods and treatment. It's not something that will just go away.

@CloudyVanilla

As frustrating as it is the mindset is part and parcel with the mental health issues, it's not a separate issue.

In order to "get a grip" she needs to find successful methods and treatment. It's not something that will just go away.

Which is why I'm asking where and how to get her those things. I don't sit her down and say she's a failure, or that she needs to get a grip, I'm saying that society seems to be telling both her and me that getting a grip is what she's supposed to be doing. I'm just trying to get her in front of someone who can help her, but I don't know what that looks like and neither does she. She says she's tried and it's not working, so as her mother I want to see what can be done. I don't think that's being unsympathetic.

I've tried sending DD to psychologists and counselling as soon as she started struggling as a child, they said nothing was wrong, or that she had 'anxiety'. What was I supposed to do, I trusted that they knew what they were doing. I know she's not lazy, but as I said, the world might not be so kind of she's unemployed. It might cause her distress, her relationship could suffer. This isn't about me, it's about what she could be setting herself up for and how to avoid her being even more miserable emotionally.

DD sitting at home, I don't see that working. She always bored, always needs something new to do. There's a bit when talking about autism that talks about routine and rigidity, but that seems to go 100% against her personality. Things are not so clear cut.

No she isn't being dramatic. And you're sorely uninformed on depression & anxiety. The very worst thing to do would be to say get a grip. Has she tried CBT therapy? It's very helpful with anxiety,deppresion & repetitive negative thoughts. The book CBT for Dummies (Amazon £7.99)is fantastic & has exercises you can do. I found it invaluable. Catastrophising, poor hygiene & being overwhelmed with things like chores are classic signs of depression. As for your she looks ok , if you told anyone I'd ever worked with that I suffer from chronic depression, they'd be gobsmacked. I put an amazing front on to the outside world. Then I go home & fall apart if I'm not on meds. Please be supportive and also look up mental health 'triggers'. Maybe there is something you can identify that triggers the declines. Psych.com is very useful for general info etc too.

@Tempbbp
.... I know DD and is not who she is.

I'm sorry, but it is quite clear that you do not know who she is. All your posts show that you simply do not comprehend at all what your daughter has been dealing with all her life. The really worrying thing is that you appear not to want to understand because you are resisting any information and advice that contradicts your fixed idea as to the life she should lead. Your attitude will not help your daughter, it will put her under much more pressure and may well lead to her having to sever contact with you in order to gain some mental stability. If that happens you will have nobody but yourself to blame.

DD sitting at home, I don't see that working. She always bored, always needs something new to do. There's a bit when talking about autism that talks about routine and rigidity, but that seems to go 100% against her personality. Things are not so clear cut.

There's quite a good saying. "If you meet a person with autism, you've met one person with autism."

In other words, no two autistic people are alike. Their autism will show in very different ways. Not all autistic people will struggle with social skills. They won't all crave routine or structure. They will all cope in different ways and work in different ways.

Women with autism in particular present very differently to men and it's why it's incredibly common for women not to receive a diagnosis until their twenties, thirties or even forties and beyond.

I think you have very little knowledge about the realities of autism and what it's like to live with on a personal level. You need to stop thinking about societies expectations of your daughter. She has autism - what society wants is largely irrelevant because society is not set up to accommodate people with autism.

The battle your DD faces everyday just to function and manage the basics is huge. The help that exists for autistic adults is exceptionally poor and is non-existent in many parts of the country. It's a very misunderstood condition all round, really, as it has so many variations and ways of presenting itself.

I know deep down you just want her to be okay but the reality is that she may never be okay. She can access therapy and medication and follow advice but when the entire world is designed to work against you, none of that really matters.

I think you need to give up the idea that FT employment is the best thing for her. She’s clearly struggling and desperately unhappy, this breakdown could have been caused by forcing herself into work every day,

Work can be very stressful and difficult for people with autism. She may get sensory overload from masking and pretending to be ‘neurotypical’ (I know the diagnosis is recent but autism in females is often missed until they have a breakdown in adulthood. Females have more receptor cells in their brains than males so can mimic socially acceptable behaviour. She’s probably been masking for years without even realising. That takes a massive toll on mental health).

Showering can be overwhelming and distressing for someone with autism, they often have heightened senses and may hate the feeling, smell and sound of soap and water. Depression on top will sap her motivation.

Can you offer to go round and just chat with her, listen, make cups of tea? Help her tidy for the cleaner without judging the mess? Offer to make her some meals so they aren’t relying on takeaways all week? Her partner may also be overwhelmed and struggling, she’s probably taken on the role of your daughter’s carer. Try to show both of them you’re there for them. Partner may benefit from a carers assessment.

I’d encourage your daughter (gently) to go back to her GP and try a different medication and/or therapy. She may find therapy via the phone or Skype easier than going out.

Does she have sensory issues with PPE, eg wearing masks for work and in shops or public transport?

The whole uncertainty and anxiety of covid may have been the last straw.

I think she really needs your help right now.

It's not that I don't want to understand, it's that I've seen her without a job before and it made her absolutely miserable. She felt worthless and became agoraphobic. If I said to her "oh well hun you have autism, it's ok if you can't cope with work" she'd have a meltdown.

@Tempbbp

It's not that I don't want to understand, it's that I've seen her without a job before and it made her absolutely miserable. She felt worthless and became agoraphobic. If I said to her "oh well hun you have autism, it's ok if you can't cope with work" she'd have a meltdown.

Yeah, that's exactly what people are suggesting you do

I'm really not sitting here thinking about how it'll be embarrassing or problematic for me if she resigns. But if she does she'll be in tatters two days later. She works from home, so no PPE.

I absolutely agree that her workplace isn't helping her at the moment, but the only alternative seems to be just leaving employment completely. My daughter's self esteem is understandably low and a lot of her self worth is built on her ability to be self-sufficient and earning money. She clings to it.

So no matter how difficult it is, what I'm saying is that her not working is no guarantee of her health getting better, and I'm worried it could make it worse. I get from reading posts here that it's very difficult for her to cope with daily life, but all that does is make me angry that there is seemingly no help for her. I can support her emotionally, but that is not going to help her get to where she wants to be. She needs practical help. Her wife works away a lot so isn't as able to support. They have a good relationship, but I know she is lonely.

I know you all are desperate to paint me as some toxic parent who is adding to her misery, but in reality that isn't the dynamic I think we have. I also don't tell my daughter to get a grip, I just want the best for her whether that's a kick up the bum or trying to get the council involved or anything that might help. That's why I came on here. Because I didn't know what it looked like to other people.

That she's disabled and that nobody can or wants to help her keep her life together.

What is wrong with accepting that she is disabled and therefore needs to structure her life differently and adapt how and what she does in order to cope, as well as feel fulfilled?

It doesn't have to be a choice between burning out in full time work or becoming depressed at not working. Lots of people work part time to manage disabilities.

Being disabled doesn't mean you're consigned to a dustbin. It's just about being practical and doing things differently so you can still have a good life - as long as you keep railing against her difficulties instead of trying to work with them you'll both stay frustrated and unhappy.

I absolutely agree that her workplace isn't helping her at the moment, but the only alternative seems to be just leaving employment completely.

Why would that be the only alternative? She could take some time off / get signed off, she could go part time while she recovers a bit, she could get a different job, she could work for herself... just because she’s not managing well in this job doesn’t mean she’ll never manage in any.

And yes, it sucks that there’s no treatment that can make life more manageable for autistic people who are struggling. That’s because it’s not an illness, there’s no treatment and there’s no cure. Treatment for anxiety will help, strategies for sensory issues, processing what she needs to do etc will help. But please, this is not the end of the world. Your daughter is strong, intelligent and capable - she’s achieved so much. You need some perspective.

The stats for adults with ASD in full time employment are staggeringly low... I can't remember off the top of my head but I remember being very sad about it as a mum with two boys with ASD.

I find full time work hard work and I don't have much left for anything out of work, I feel like I use all of my people/fitting in energy at work. I've never been assessed for ASD but I know my 18 year old would struggle in full time work.

Have you thought at looking into finding someone you can talk through everything with? I don’t for a second doubt you want what’s best for her and the autism diagnosis must have come as quite a shock to you so perhaps if you can talk your feelings and things through with someone it will help you be in the right place to support her?

Mother, is that you?

No, you aren’t my mother OP but you sound just like her. I had a bloody go at her yesterday because I’m depressed and she tole me I’ve just got to get over it. Yep, get over it, I’d never thought of that, good job she told me otherwise I’d have been mooning around for the rest of my life in the pits of depression. So glad she told me to get over it, i’ve done it and now I feel fabulous.

Don’t be such a dick OP. If it was a case of getting a grip don’t you think she would have by now? Do you think she’s enjoying it? No, maybe she isn’t engaging with services to their full potential, but guess what, she’s depressed and anxious, and being depressed and anxious makes it rather hard to see the wood for the trees.

Here’s an idea, instead of telling her to get a grip, try trying to help. Encourage her instead of telling her off. Support her and listen to her, rathe than being like my bloody mother and telling her to get over it.

No depressed person ever got happy just because someone told them to cheer up OP. That would be like telling somebody with cancer to just get better for crying out loud.

Has she been referred to occupational health through work? They should recommend reasonable adjustments in the workplace to support DD