London exodus??

[Newdonewhugh]

Has anyone else noticed that their Town has a lot of people moving from London?
Are local Town and village FB pages literally have 2/3/4 people a day joining and posting with the likes of “I’m moving to ..... from London next week, can anyone help me with X,Y,Z”
My Sister and others said they’ve noticed it too.
We live in South Coast.
I just wonder what this New World will look like. What will happen to London?

8 flats in my street have gone on sale in the last day, I get the 24 hour updates

I wonder if second lockdown has pushed some ditherers?

@VinylDetective when i was talking about that, i wasn't specifically talking about the build. I was saying most people in the uk would want to live on a council estate, esp if there was a mix of council tenants. Ex council flats are 25% cheaper in my area in london. An ex council freehold house sold for £575k in my area in east finchley, a period house would sell for £1 million.

this has been going on for years, the city I live in has lots of people who have moved here from London. When we moved back to our city (hubs family city) from a bad move to Shropshire (nightmare being freelance up there) we found ourselves, on moving back, up against London buyers....and wealthy pensioners. We were renting in home city but that rental ended so found another rental and asked that landlord if he'd sell it to us instead, he said yes, but also put it on the open market :( .... bidding war started, which also had an 80 year old clergyman wanting to buy our small semi as an investment :/, it was a rental house in a very bad condition so our small budget could just about get the basic remedial work done but nothing else, we were maxxed out, but due to the very sympathetic estate agent who fought our case with the landlord we managed to win the bid. But then found of course we didn't have the money to do any renovation. 5 years on we're getting there doing most of the work ourselves so it is no longer a rental hole, the kids love it, it has been a struggle but now I'm so relieved we got the house because due to the rise of house prices we wouldn't be able to afford it now. Glad we fought for it back then. Career wise we've had to start all over again, but that's been ok, and getting some success although my part time job has recently come into it's own due to Covid. I have mixed feelings about Londoners moving here, I love the vibrancy, and positivity they bring - it has really affected our city in a good way and they don't tolerate bad workmanship or localism, and flag all old city network dodginess, annoy wealthy baby boomers (hahahaha!) and bring exciting new ideas which benefit everyone. The only downside is the house prices go up, however in our city it's not just Londoners who cause this....wealthy baby boomers, alas, are moving here in droves and are I believe the main reason everything is so expensive - there's another poster's answer as to who is selling all the huge rural and coastal houses - many boomers move here to a small city because they're probably bored with country/seaside life. And they don't bring as much positivity, creativity or fun, in fact I come into contact with them in my pt job and they can be a total nightmare. But I love the Londoners, especially families and young couples...they're funny and keep our city on it's toes. I have more against wealthy baby boomers unfortunately as I'm not sure what they give back to society, apart from grumpybumbling, lol....having said that I know quite a few boomers who are lovely and young at heart!! But...I do really feel for people like us who haven't been so lucky, who want to live here but can't afford it, even the rents are high, so they end up in small rural towns around the city with a long commute into work and those that have in our city..rarely give a toss about the have nots.

Yes, I read that the retired are choosing to Escape to Small Towns rather than Escape to the Country (or seaside) now.

I think one problem that showed it’s face during the past months was when the most vocal anti-visitor brigade was the retired. In Cornwall the actual workers - reliant on tourism - wanted tourism back on its feet. The people who had moved there recently and contributed little wanted to pull up the drawbridge.

hopingforonlychild

Hitchin is quite pretty with ok schools but also expensive esp if you count in rail fares. And whr they rearranged the timetable, the rail journey became much harder and difficult to get. hatfield is really ugly. I live in a lovely area in London (walking distance to highgate woods and hampstead health and 5 Ofsted Outstanding schools) so if I am going to compromise and move out of london, why would I compromise and go for something with a worse environment in the home counties? It's not like it would even be cheaper due to the rail fares, if I wanted to reduce living costs cos I found it difficult with a child, it would be more practical to move to a place like Manchester with buses, jobs in the city and also £12k per year private schools (rather than spend £8k a year on substandard rail services

There are many reason you would move out a few miles.

The schools if you have children can be as good or better than in Central London depending where you live.

It is quicker to get to work. I don’t think Dp or dd who have commuted for years to 2 different areas of London using different train/tube lines have had any real difficulties barring the odd day maybe once per year if there has been bad frost etc Biggest problem has been tube strikes.

Property is cheaper, I really don’t recognise this assertion that property prices are the same as in Central London
If you look at Hitchin as an example
4/5 bed detacheds with your own private garden and driveway and close (within 3 miles) to the station are around £5-600,000
Even at the lower end a 3 bed terrace with a garden is around £275,000
What would you buy in Central London for under £300,000?

As for £8000 per year season ticket, is that for 1st class travel?

Ultimately it is where you can afford to live. If you have children and are in rented and working in London and want to buy then you have to be practical and holding out for a price crash to pick up the 3 bed detached in St Johns Wood for £285,000 is never going to happen. You move out to a place where you can have your own garden, and the children can have a bedroom each and you can easily still get into your work, just coming in from a different direction

Yes it might be more per week for travel but that is offset by the cost of the mortgage as opposed to continue renting for the rest of your life.

I am all for living in London and my dc have been lucky enough to be able to have access to the tube network and get around on their own from a young age but if you have children and can’t afford to buy in Central London then although it might not be your dream house or place to live I would keep an open mind about living just a bit further out without going so far you have to upend your life.

Sure but it won't be one of the worlds financial hubs, outside of the EU (and any other trade bloc) there is no reason for it to be.

Like Zurich, Geneva, Dubai, Singapore, Bermuda........

It could still happen.

@Tessiot

Sure but it won't be one of the worlds financial hubs, outside of the EU (and any other trade bloc) there is no reason for it to be.

Like Zurich, Geneva, Dubai, Singapore, Bermuda........

It could still happen.

Agree. London was a World financial hub before the EU and there's no reason at all why it won't continue to be one after Brexit.

@Oliversmumsarmy £8k is how much it would cost for 2 season tickets as we both work in london. I own my own flat in zone 3 so its not a case of not being able to buy.

I wasn't talking about owning in st johns wood. i dont own in st johns wood, i own in east finchley. my 2 bed flat cost me £392k. I don't drive so i would live within 1 mile of the station. its about 400k for a 3 bed house in hitchin, i would probably want an extra bedroom as it is often a necessity when you live further out due to family visiting or a home office. So yes i would be spending more in hitchin due to paying 2 X season ticket fares ...and I would be getting 1 extra bedroom. I don't need a car in london and i am very near family support in hendon. I get that people are fine with paying for transport if they can get some extra space and a garden but personally I would rather pick the cheaper way of living (which also allows me to work in london). esp after a pandemic which resulted in a large recession. DH and I were saving £1k per month pre pandemic and i think if i had moved out to hitchin, i would not be able to save that much. Our savings go into overpaying the mortgage, transport costs would just be sunk costs. There is a chance one day that I could sell up and therefore be able to use the equity, there is no chance that i can recover any season ticket costs. So for me, i try to live as centrally as i can afford with the option to use cheap public transport and also be near good schools.
.

@Tessiot a lot of these countries have massively low tax. I can see london as a top financial hub too..but with dreadful consequences for the poor and the regions. The global rich love London and they are not going to stop loving london- the council tax for a penthouse flat in knightsbridge is immorally low and they have all the bankers, lawyers accessible here.

I think a lot of Brexiters imagined London as a turbo charged Singapore- low taxes but without the universal public housing system and mandatory savings schemes that keep the middle classes and low income earners in Singapore above water.

Sold our 6 bed property in Scotland in 48hrs, all three viewings (1 virtual) were cash buyers leaving London. Well over the asking price too, so very happy. 😃

Was planning to leave to coast and get montofri let in london..now wfh means wont need that - we will go to 3 days wfh 2 days office.

@@Tessiot - the problem with comparing London to Singapore, Zurich etc is that these are v. small countries. So effectively the gains from the financial sector needs to be re-distributed amongst a tiny population. Now the UK is still a small country but it's not 10million people like all the places you've mentioned.

So the problem for London is not just WFH but essentially losing its global standing and the UK not being able to make up the shortfall through de-regulation. The social contract in places like Zurich, Geneva, Dubai, Singapore, Bermuda is pretty strong, in the UK it's only to its shareholders/Tory party.

@tjamaoe singapore is even smaller, its 5 million! So yes.

I am optimistic about london, i think it would retain its global standing. But most londoners wouldn't even benefit from it, let alone the rest of the uk.

hopingforonlychild - I know as is Bermuda - but the point stands that the social contract plus redistributions mechanisms are different between the UK and Singapore.

I am also a lot less optimistic about London. It was crap in the 80s/90s for a lot of people and might become so again.

@tjamaoe though it probably did enable DH's parents to buy a house.

However, London is much more connected internationally than the regions which ironically relied a lot on intra-EU trade. Surely London would be less affected than them? We would also get an injection of HKers and most would end up in london- they would be an asset and replace the people leaving for the Good Life.

@hopingforonlychild not sure. would have to defer to international bankers/lawyers etc here. The EU 'deal' if there ever is one wont give the access the city wanted. Whether de-regulation will make up the shortfall - no idea. The UK benefited from being an English speaking hub in the EU vis-a-vis the world - no idea what happens now.

@hopingforonlychild I completely agree more cheap housing needs to be built, but for a cheap rent, its crazy to let people buy subsidised housing which then gets sold on at an extortionate rate. I do see there are problems with sink estates but this is as much due to lifestyle choices as it is to lack of support.

hopingforonlychild

I wasn’t referring to you personally I was talking about people in general. Those who have bought and need more space or those who rent and can’t afford to buy in London.

But if they lived some miles out of London then the commute would be in some cases easier and they could afford to buy a house where they couldnt have afforded anything in London or where they could have bought only a small flat which wouldn’t have been suitable if they wanted children.

If the choice is between renting a small flat in London or buying a house in the Home Counties but you have to spend £4K on a season ticket then I know which I would go for
I know you are hoping for only one child but what would you do if you wanted to keep your job but also wanted another child and you can’t afford the extra bedroom in the area you are in.
The only route I can see is to move out a few miles to a perfectly nice areas or to a cheaper area in London that might not work as well commute wise for you or stay and be cramped into a flat that isn’t fit for any of you.

There isn’t anything wrong with the HC’s. They can offer the best of both worlds.

We relocated to the country, to a small village.We stayed for five tears, because my husband liked it and was happy there. Well I hated and we are now back in town. I agree London has so much going for it. So I say to people be careful what you wish for.

@Oliversmumsarmy - but the problem is that it's not really 4k per year. just checked (because of this thread) - St Alban's annual ticket is 3,7k per year so double that for both parents and it's 7,4k per year. Now yes you might be able to buy a house in say St Albans (next to a nice school etc) but you also have to add 7,3k for your travel plus tube every year until retirement. That's actually quite a lot of money. Of course, if you have 500k or even 700k and can buy a house outright then it makes total sense but that's quite a hefty amount of equity even for Londoners.

For us - it's exactly the same amount of cash per month for a nice two-bed garden flat in NLondon next to good schools as it is for the same size house in St Albans. And honestly, I would still much rather live in NLondon then St Albans where I have to drive etc, am miles from family etc.

Until annual train tickets are reformed and people really only do have to come in for one or two days per week to the office - the maths is still a bit wobbly as to what makes sense in our case. But i appreciate that this is only true for us and obviously not for everyone

I have noticed this in my kids school. We are in London and I have noticed lots of people are selling up and moving out. I just wonder how this will work once offices go back again. I am sure working from home will be more acceptable now, but I still think there will be an awful lot of people left not seeing their kids at least for parts of the week as they do really long commutes back into London for meetings and days in the office. I wrote a whole thing about this just this week actually in case anyone is interested in giving it a read. www.navigatingbaby.com/moving-to-the-countryside-from-london/

I have noticed this in my kids school. We are in London and I have noticed lots of people are selling up and moving out. I just wonder how this will work once offices go back again. I am sure working from home will be more acceptable now, but I still think there will be an awful lot of people left not seeing their kids at least for parts of the week as they do really long commutes back into London for meetings and days in the office. I wrote a whole thing about this just this week actually in case anyone is interested in giving it a read.

Well, I guess this depends where they move to..... Someone commuting from say Sevenoaks or Tonbridge into the City has a quicker commute than many living in some parts of London and using the tube. 😐

As someone who moved out of London (Zone 1), 14 years ago, there is no way I’d go back now. The quality of life we have in the countryside far trumps anything London has to offer. And the space we have has been our saving grace during these couple of lockdowns (especially the first one). Love going back for Days/evenings out in London, but wouldn’t want to live there. Unless I had ‘Oligarch’ money 😬.

@KNavigatingBaby - exactly and I would add that seeing as many London couples have both parents working (not just because of money but also because both partners might actually enjoy it) - a two-hour commute each way for both parents even three times a week is actually quite a lot. Now perhaps most people will only be going in one a week - in which case it does make it easier. But we've both been told that we will be expected to be in three days per week. Realistically I want a one hour commute each way.

@tjamaoe I think a lot of people move out to the Home Counties because they want the extra space/lifestyle and don't mind increasing their outgoings to do so. Also a lot of wfh/stay at home parents. The math did not stack up for me either and i also live in NLondon. the joke is that in St Albans, i can only get a flat for the same level of outgoings as in East Finchley!

I think the math does stack up for higher value properties. for 1 million, you only get a terraced in many parts of NLondon and pay insane stamp duty. for 1 million, you get a larger house in St Albans (esp if its not in the Old Town) and the savings can pay for the season ticket fares. At that income level, you are more likely to be able to afford nannies. Also private schools are mostly cheaper in the sticks. if you moved to Bucks, your child is more likely to get into grammar than in London and you can save on the private secondary fees.
So I am not saying there are no advantages but I don't actually think the Home Counties (or at least the nice towns) are a cost efficient option for a young family.

@Henlie its really funny and i am glad you like your lifestyle now. My DH told me when we were looking for our first property last year that we can only afford to move out of London if we had oligarch money! The prices have really shot up and combined with 2 X season ticket fares of £8k, it was far cheaper for me to buy a 2 bed flat in London than a 2 bed house in the Home Counties. Yes there is less space but we can keep our heads over water in London and would have no savings in the Home Counties.