What is your honest opinion of Eastern Europeans?

[tellmehowitis]

Name changed for this.
I've been in England for nearly a decade and have tried to integrate but so far the friends I have are other Eastern Europeans such as Polish, Latvian, Romanian etc. and also a few Spanish, Portuguese, Italian.

My experiences of English people (women especially) have been as follows:
-seeming friendly and saying things like "we should go for coffee/drinks" but not actually meaning it.
-most locals already have a social circle and don't seem to want to add to it (or don't want to add me specifically).
-if friendships do develop people will at some point suddenly decide they don't like me anymore for no reason (well there obviously is a reason but they don't say what it is).
-people blank me or act condescending. A woman on a course I was on actually turned away and looked at the ceiling when I said "hi, how are you", even though the previous day we'd had a perfectly pleasant chat. I couldn't think of what I could've said to offend, it was all general small talk like where we're from and what uni we went to etc. This has happened a few times with different people.

Maybe I'm just not likeable...but then there are no problems with people of other nationalities. I think I'm "normal" and not some weirdo, I speak English, have a job and am not here to "sponge" or any of the other stereotypes.

It didn't used to bother me too much but now I'm considering my long term future...even though materially speaking I have a nice life here I'm thinking of moving back home to settle down, because feeling like an outsider takes its toll emotionally.

I'm just curious though, what is it about me that locals don't like...is it my personality specifically that doesn't fit here, or is it because of my nationality? (It was the same before Brexit, so can't blame that).
If you're EE do you have English friends? And if you're English, would you be friends with an EE person? What do you honestly think of us as a whole?

I'm in Ireland and know a good few Polish people (mainly women) through work/working in local shops. I have always found those that I know to be very friendly and hard working

And i think it's quite a stretch to hold up blatant racist abuse as evidence of a culture which is less racist

@formerbabe I guess we are all shaped by our experiences. When I watch the news I keep seeing things like people patrolling the Kent coast in little boats or protests at barracks.

And maybe as someone who’s been told to go home in a ‘reasonable’ way many times, has jobs withdrawn on a name, has kids told to give home’ by people ‘who didn’t mean it like that’, had kids left in groups because it wasn’t worth moving them up/ too difficult etc I’ve been impacted by the subtle forms of English behaviour more. Maybe that’s why I’m sensitive to it. It’s doesn’t seem less racist to me at all to subtle, it’s exactly the same as the idiot in Odessa or somewhere shouting his head off in the street. It’s not nice when it’s quiet either.

But @formerbabe babe I think culturally you will hold up ‘blatant racial abuse’ as far far worse than the systemic hidden racism? Personally I think it’s all equally shit, and I wouldn’t hold my chin up for either as better.

I do though relate to you being impacted by the news, I think I became more sour after the Facebook comments I saw about refugees drowning at sea- I honestly cried.

[quote Oeliil]@formerbabe I guess we are all shaped by our experiences. When I watch the news I keep seeing things like people patrolling the Kent coast in little boats or protests at barracks.

And maybe as someone who’s been told to go home in a ‘reasonable’ way many times, has jobs withdrawn on a name, has kids told to give home’ by people ‘who didn’t mean it like that’, had kids left in groups because it wasn’t worth moving them up/ too difficult etc I’ve been impacted by the subtle forms of English behaviour more. Maybe that’s why I’m sensitive to it. It’s doesn’t seem less racist to me at all to subtle, it’s exactly the same as the idiot in Odessa or somewhere shouting his head off in the street. It’s not nice when it’s quiet either.[/quote]
No of course, I wouldn't ever say it's ok that those things have happened to you. It's terrible. I don't believe all EE people are racist..of course not. I have a lovely friend from there who is married to a black man.

I think in general the UK is fairly tolerant, and probably more so than many other countries in the world.

Genuine question, the freedom of movement between EE and the UK has been fairly one sided if you look at the stats. If hundreds of thousands of Brits migrated to an EE country, what do you think the reaction would be?

I'm from Eastern Europe and have been told I'm very direct on many occasions..Some people tell me they prefer it that way and appreciate it but I found I can't trust what most say as they just aren't honest...
It's difficult as I obviously don't want to be offensive but really struggle with the passive agressive and two faced way of life...

On the pleasantries front..I spend my first couple of years in UK so impressed by how friendly people are..and caring..I genuinely thought that when my manager asked "How are you" he wanted to know...so I told him...every time!!!!
I now know better(took years though) and often wonder if he realized it was cultural difference or if he just thought I was an oversharing weirdo...

Also this:

A generalisation but most of the Eastern Europeans I come across tend to be cleaners or builders. I have both at the moment and they’re all super hardworking and lovely. Give me an Eastern European builder or cleaner over their British counterparts any day. Haven’t really come across many socially but wouldn’t not being friends with someone because of their nationality. The school my DC goes to is very international, albeit it’s usually French, Scandis, Italians, Americans, and when we go for parents drinks etc, everyone goes; where one is from doesn’t enter into it.
Anecdotally, a good friend of mine sends her children to a Catholic primary school in west London which has lots of Polish families and said that the mums tend to keep themselves to themselves.

After 20 years of living here, I can honestly say that I find the British xenophobic, insular, dishonest, two-faced, prejudiced, arrogant, condescending and patronising.

With a few notable exceptions, as my British husband is really lovely. Like many other Eastern Europeans I am straightforward and friendly, and I too fell into the trap of trying to make friends with British people. I am an educated professional, but I found that no matter what I do, I would never be enough for the cliquey white British middle class mums from the leafy suburbs. Eventually I gave up, and concenrated on the lovely circle of fellow Immigrant friends that I have made over the years. It's much, much better that way. Don't worry OP - it's not you, it's just the way it is!

DelilahfromDevon What's wrong with British builders and cleaners...too working class for you??? You may want to have a rethink there.

I love how no one is disputing the culture of hard work but are disputing the culture of racism.

Maybe they’re not all hard working or racist...mind blown.

SlovakPrincess....you are absolutely awful. No wonder you didn’t make friends.

Self awareness is key.

@formerbabe where I lived as a child there were whole towns made up from workers from the Far East of the USSR, who also practiced a different religion. There has been huge movements, shifting boundaries (my grandmother has never loved but was born in a now neighbouring country and has been occupied by others). Believe me I know about feelings, the reactions and nationalism. I’m not personally feeling the EE migration is new. My own mother migrated to where I was born a significant distance west, I have down the same, now my eldest has moved back East. I’m not so familiar with the island heritage and movements.

Btw I have not a single relation who’s even decent at DIY 😂

@LucilleBluth that’s a good example of an English put down. ‘Self-awareness’, a aim to be superior over the other and make them feel small without direct insult to challenge.

I’m not personally feeling the EE migration is new

No it's not new, my grandparents were actually from EE (former USSR and Poland)

However, the migration after the Ascension countries joined the EU was notable by the scale of it.

I know plenty of East Europeans who are not builders or cleaners. One of my neighbours have gone from nothing to owning a multi-million pound business in the 15 year period I've known them. They deserve every single penny. I also have a stockbroker friend who works for an investment bank, several who work in Management Consultancy firms, a couple of accountants. I think it's hugely prejudiced to assume they are all builders or cleaners.

What I’m saying is I have seen notable Immigration in my lifetime already, being from EE, so asking me how I’d feel about it if it happened to me is a moot point. It’s no unique to England and I don’t have to imagine it

I will say that even as a British person, it is very hard to make friends with British people. All the friends I've made as an adult have been from other countries. I've found them much more open to friendship

@Oeliil

What I’m saying is I have seen notable Immigration in my lifetime already, being from EE, so asking me how I’d feel about it if it happened to me is a moot point. It’s no unique to England and I don’t have to imagine it

I had a quick Google of the statistics, for the past decade, immigration to Poland has been less than 20 thousand people per year during the past decade. Into the UK, it has been in the hundreds of thousands. I just picked Poland as an example. So of course, there is movement into and out of all countries but immigration levels into the UK are far higher than they are in Eastern European countries. That's just a fact.

Oeliil No darling... that is a piece of advice to someone who claims they can’t make friends with Brits because they’re ‘ xenophobic, insular, dishonest, two-faced, prejudiced, arrogant, condescending and patronising’.

Do you see the irony?

As in - well read, being able to appreciate art, well versed in history, politics and economics, and able to hold a debate on a complicated topic.
I got called a middle class tory because I said I enjoyed going to an opera as a teenager😂😂😂

I won't pretend there isn't racism in EE and yes it's more overt than Uk.

But the dynamics are different. Racism in the Uk harks back to the colonial past, when non-whites were seen as inferior and were ruled by the British.
In EE it's the other way round - many EE countries were colonised by the Ottomans for centuries. White Christians were oppressed, stripped of rights, massacred etc and really had to fight for survival and eventually independence. Dark skinned people equalled mortal danger. My country's entire folklore - literature, folk songs etc is about this struggle. My great-grandparents lived during the tail end of this era - it really wasn't that long ago. So attitudes aren't going to change overnight.

You also have to remember many EE counties don't have a history of democracy and free press. It's all a new concept, and even today there is censorship, biased media and few ethical restrictions. So the media can report on refugees, for example, using racist language. Add to that the explosion of fake news, conspiracy theories and alt right websites, which many people get taken in by.

Of course that doesn't excuse racism today and isn't much comfort to BAME people who have received abuse. It makes me ashamed of my people, and not all EE people are like this.

@Bloodybridget Thank you, yes I've been learning English since I was 6 and went to an English speaking school.
Some of my international friends have English friends...mainly the Italians, Spanish etc
The EE ones not so much (and yes, Polish/Czech are Central Europe geographically but I just mean formed Eastern bloc countries, this is usually what is meant when people say Eastern Europe).

@Oeliil That's awful...I haven't experienced anything as extreme thankfully. I'm sure some people are thinking it without saying it though (hence me starting the thread).

OP, I am interested in your first post from a purely language point of view: your English is amazing, did you study at degree level in this country?
As for the point you make: I've worked and spent a great deal of time in several European countries and as a result would no more use the term "Eastern European" as I would "Western European" (which would encompass countries as diverse as Portugal and Ireland...). I don't think it's particularly helpful to attach sweeping statements, whether positive or negative, to a group consisting of millions of people.

Yes Schrodinger, thats why I said relatively, and if Britain isnt as racist as other places, why are people saying its racist as if thats some specifically unique trait of the british?