What is your honest opinion of Eastern Europeans?

[tellmehowitis]

Name changed for this.
I've been in England for nearly a decade and have tried to integrate but so far the friends I have are other Eastern Europeans such as Polish, Latvian, Romanian etc. and also a few Spanish, Portuguese, Italian.

My experiences of English people (women especially) have been as follows:
-seeming friendly and saying things like "we should go for coffee/drinks" but not actually meaning it.
-most locals already have a social circle and don't seem to want to add to it (or don't want to add me specifically).
-if friendships do develop people will at some point suddenly decide they don't like me anymore for no reason (well there obviously is a reason but they don't say what it is).
-people blank me or act condescending. A woman on a course I was on actually turned away and looked at the ceiling when I said "hi, how are you", even though the previous day we'd had a perfectly pleasant chat. I couldn't think of what I could've said to offend, it was all general small talk like where we're from and what uni we went to etc. This has happened a few times with different people.

Maybe I'm just not likeable...but then there are no problems with people of other nationalities. I think I'm "normal" and not some weirdo, I speak English, have a job and am not here to "sponge" or any of the other stereotypes.

It didn't used to bother me too much but now I'm considering my long term future...even though materially speaking I have a nice life here I'm thinking of moving back home to settle down, because feeling like an outsider takes its toll emotionally.

I'm just curious though, what is it about me that locals don't like...is it my personality specifically that doesn't fit here, or is it because of my nationality? (It was the same before Brexit, so can't blame that).
If you're EE do you have English friends? And if you're English, would you be friends with an EE person? What do you honestly think of us as a whole?

I'll be friends with anyone. Where you were born makes no difference whatsoever. Except I do admire people who are brave enough to learn a new language and start a new life away from everything they know. I find that really interesting and am more drawn to people like this.
Otherwise I am open to new friendships with anyone at all. As long as they are kind, not racist etc.

I don’t know any well enough to have an opinion, but that’s only because I don’t think we have a large EE community where I live.

That said, when I was growing up I spent a huge amount of time with my grandmother, and through her I knew the most amazing polish gentleman. He had so many stories to tell, and he’d been through the Holocaust. I learnt so much from him, and I’m forever grateful to have known him. He was a credit to his country.

So, if I was to stereotype EE people from my, very limited, experience; they’re all bloody incredible!

I’m Irish and live in London - most of my friends are Irish tbh - I’ve found it hard to make friends with many British people Tbh. I don’t know why!

Its however also bollocks that the UK is relatively really racist as is being made out on here. Its statistically the least racist country in Europe.

The 'hard working' thing I agree with you OP. Yes, nearly all immigrants are hard working, because they tend to be the younger people who have had the motivation to move away from their country to work for extra money, Its not going to be an average sample of people is it?

This "bluntness" everyone is mentioning as if it were a negative trait - what there is not to like?

When I moved to the UK from northern Europe I thought everyone loved me and wanted to be my friend. It was amazing. Only after some time I found out that this in-your-face friendliness is fake and only there to avoid any sense of social awkwardness. In my country you don't suggest meeting up if you don't mean it. You don't invent random compliments like "aww I really like your hair" in order to come across as nice and friendly in a conversation. You are not chatty and charming when you actively dislike somebody. It totally amazed me how the Brits can have a lovely conversation with somebody and as soon as the other person is out of the room the bitching starts. Why oh why would you act that pleased and even happy to talk to someone if you find them obnoxious!? I find it all very very draining.

I have lived in several countries and haven't witnessed this anywhere else. Anywhere else people may be blunt for your taste but you are never mistaken as to where you stand with people.

@user1471565182

Its however also bollocks that the UK is relatively really racist as is being made out on here. Its statistically the least racist country in Europe.

No one is saying uk is as racist as some others. However, it is still racist overall.

Not quite sure why "you all right?" is taken as proof that the British are peculiarly insincere- lots of languages have similar phrases. The French use "ça va" - does that make them more or less insincere than the British?

Most European languages start written communications with some variation on "Dear X", even if they have no particular feelings for the person in question. (I mean, I'm sure that sales manager is a perfectly lovely person, but I'd be lying if I said he is dear to me- doesn't necessarily mean I am lying when I start my letter Dear Mr Jones).

I have a Polish friend who is so lovely, great sense of humour and great fun she has been in the UK over 20 years. After Brexit she started getting some awful abuse from knobs telling her to 'go home'

I'd swap a million ignorant Brits for 1 of her.

I moved to a village full of English people and after the initially trying to connect with people I don’t think I spoke to anyone apart from Dp and friends from London occasionally when they came up for the night for 12 years.

Like anyone there's good and bad. I have met some lovely EE and some not so lovely, but that's the same with all nationalities.

I do feel slightly cautious as my dh is black and we have mixed race dc...the only blatant racism we have experienced has been from EE.

Not quite sure why "you all right?" is taken as proof that the British are peculiarly insincere

I was asked how are you by someone who I considered at the time was a friend.
I wasn’t alright/fine/good or any of the words that you are supposed to say by a long way. I had the previous evening had news that Dp had collapsed and was in intensive care in a New York hospital whilst he had been working in the US
When I replied not good I was immediately cut off with the reply “God I don’t want your life story I was only being polite” and with that she walked off.
If you don’t want to listen to an answer from a question you posed. Don’t ask the question.

My husband is (was) a chef and has known many Eastern European people over the years. His general opinion was positive but as with all people there were some arseholes. He also knows how to swear in several languages now which he thinks is brilliant.

He has maintained friendships with people that he got along with. That's people of various nationalities but we often struggle to find time to meet up with people. He wouldn't however cancel if a plan had been made unless he had to.

I personally don't know as many EE people so I can't say I've formed an opinion really. The only experience that sticks out is a woman I worked with she was quite unpleasant. She asked me if my pregnancy was planned and when I was giving up working. She then went on to talk about me behind my back and then people against me. For what reason I don't know. This however wasn't because of where she was born, she was just a dick.

The French use "ça va" - does that make them more or less insincere than the British?

The difference is that the British say “Alright?” and keep on walking, making it clear they do not intend to stick around for a response. In France there will at least be the charade of “oui ça va bien merci, et toi?» «oui, ça va» before they walk off.

“Alright?” is just a noise of acknowledgement, like “hi”.

How about the American 'How you doin', or 'Have a nice day!' or the French, 'Ca va?' Neither are genuine, just greetings.

Just as insincere. It isn't just the English.

Hi @tellmehowitis I might be the poster who people are thinking you are. I posted a fairly similar thread a while ago under a different username.
I’ve been here 20 years and I’ve found it much easier for the last ten or so. I used to encounter outright discrimination at times, for example at school being told my son ‘would be a builder anyway’ when he was in an inappropriate set, refusing to change forms for the correct country ‘well that’s basically Russian anyway’, words being had in a hospital on admittance about not tolerating racism from us before I’d even been greeted, problems with having a christening in the local church attached to a school (had to go to another parish in the end), been told for a job they needed ‘excellent English’ before speaking to me, been told outright I’m lying about my job due to my nationality, another of mine child told ‘well go home!’ by a TA in class when he was 6... I could go on for hours!
I haven’t encountered outright hostility or had to explain we are not builders for many years, I think because people are far far more used to a large EE population now.
I think what you are feeling is largely a culture gap. I still don’t really get it, but I notice I’ve adapted over the years and I now have problems at home with a culture gap! I’m the one who’s now having clashes, I think I’m now stuck in a no mans land.

I still get the rage though at the looking at the ceiling response if I greet someone and they are in a mood!

@Oliversmumsarmy

Not quite sure why "you all right?" is taken as proof that the British are peculiarly insincere

I was asked how are you by someone who I considered at the time was a friend.
I wasn’t alright/fine/good or any of the words that you are supposed to say by a long way. I had the previous evening had news that Dp had collapsed and was in intensive care in a New York hospital whilst he had been working in the US
When I replied not good I was immediately cut off with the reply “God I don’t want your life story I was only being polite” and with that she walked off.
If you don’t want to listen to an answer from a question you posed. Don’t ask the question.

That’s awful. Did she ever find out what had happened to you?

NB despite what I said above about “Alright?” not expecting an answer I do find it rude if someone says something more along the lines of a full “How are you!” then doesn’t stick around for an answer. I am British. One of the senior managers in my office does this (or at least did in the olden days when we were all in the office). The full “Hello Cheetas, how are you today?” but more than once I was left with my mouth flapping like a fish as I started to respond only to find he had walked off. He thought it made him seem approachable and friendly but he was just paying lip service to the idea of caring about his staff.

I’ve learnt to take ‘alright’ or ‘how are you!’ as meaning exactly the same as ‘hello’ if it’s how someone greets me.
‘Did you have a good weekend?’, ‘how was your holiday?’ or anything else more expansive or specific I’ve learnt is a question.

I think it's a huge generalisation to say we British say 'Alright' and we don't want to know. I don't ever say alright and if I ask 'how are you' it's because I'm interested in your answer I'm not just being polite.

@tellmehowitis I'm so sorry you haven't made any British/English friends where you live. You sound very nice and sensible, and your English is awesomely good - did you speak it well before you came here? (Just to mention, although the majority of Mumsnetters seem to think you "reign" it in, it's actually "rein" as in using reins to slow a horse, nothing to do with monarchs!)

I hope I don't have stereotyped or prejudiced opinions about any nationality, I take people as I find them. We are friendly with two Polish women who are both lovely, kind and generous. I also went to school with quite a few girls of Polish parentage, back in the 60s; I certainly wasn't aware of any negative attitudes to them or their families.

I reckon if you're being cold-shouldered all the time, you're being very unlucky in the Brits you come across, and I hope you meet some nicer ones soon. Have you asked your friends who have come from other countries what their experience has been?

I am EE. What I find funny is that often British people act surprised when they discover that I am "well educated", in a broad sense, despite my strong foreign accent. As in - well read, being able to appreciate art, well versed in history, politics and economics, and able to hold a debate on a complicated topic. It is almost like an automatic assumption is made that I must be an oaf with manual skills only, or - even in the best case - trained up to do a specialised technical role that requires some intelligence to press the right buttons, but no fluidity of thought.

I switched recently from the corporate environment to academia and god, how refreshing it was not to see that kind of attitude anymore.

@Oeliil

I’ve learnt to take ‘alright’ or ‘how are you!’ as meaning exactly the same as ‘hello’ if it’s how someone greets me. ‘Did you have a good weekend?’, ‘how was your holiday?’ or anything else more expansive or specific I’ve learnt is a question.

If you want to really confuse people respond "much better now, thanks so much for asking" and leave them racking their brains to remember what could have been wrong before.

@formerbabe

Like anyone there's good and bad. I have met some lovely EE and some not so lovely, but that's the same with all nationalities.

I do feel slightly cautious as my dh is black and we have mixed race dc...the only blatant racism we have experienced has been from EE.

In my experience, I think because there are so few black people (comparitvely) in most Central/Eastern European countries, the racism that people from there may have tends to be much more blatant but less deeply ingrained if that makes sense. Since it comes more from genuine ignorance (I am not saying all Eastern Europeans are ignorant just the racist ones) or stuff they have seen on TV. Rather than UK/American racism where people have grown up in closer proximity to ethic minorities - difference has to be really emphasized from an early age if you want to perpetuate it, so it tends to be much more deeply ingrained/instinctive where it exists.

Regarding the view of black people- I disagree. It’s like me meeting Brexit supporting BNP members who constantly talk about immigration and saying ‘this is the english’. Or claiming most the English fly the St George flag and moan if non-English people move in to the neighbourhood. You’d be offended and tell me that’s a minority, it’s the same in Eastern Europe. In many deprived Urban areas there is racism (though to be honest I’d say anti semitism is far far more common than a negative view of black people).

My experience of Black people when I was younger was pretty much exclusively those who travelled to study. There were many who came to the university from other countries in Asia and Africa. I thought they were affluent and educated, as that was my experience. Whilst I’d say some of my older family members have a fear of the unknown in general, and may not actively approach black people first, they do not hold the association with colour I see in England. They are not superior in tone towards those with a different skin (well Roma- that’s a huge huge issue I accept...). Black people are not seen as poor, or less educated, presumed to have kids in gangs or whatever, this is a Western European viewpoint I’ve seen a lot though here in subtle ways. I actually find the English view more depressing. In Eastern Europe there are some vocal idiots, here there are many many ways of subtlety being racist. Managing friendship groups, moving together in areas, schools being less open, generally quietly holding presumptions about family structures etc. Personally I find that harder to tackle than telling a loud idiot to fuck off back under their rock.

I wouldn’t hold up the English as an example to Eastern European’s on how to improve their tolerance, both sides certainly have issues and I hope no one avoids Eastern Europeans over it.

@Oeliil

I was just explaining my experiences. We live in London, we were not used to any outward negativity towards our family.

I remember watching the scenes on the news when the refugees from the middle east entered Eastern Europe. Hence why in general I don't view Eastern European countries as being especially tolerant.