To want another dog, after a bad experience

[thewaterfromhere]

Preparing myself for a bit of a flaming here.

In the next couple of years, we’d love to be thinking about having a dog. However, we did have a bad experience with a rescue.

Reasonable to try again, with a puppy?

@thewaterfromhere

Why the faces vanilla?

Because I'm genuinely confused!

You say you want a puppy because you can choose the breed and size you want - but surely you can do those things with a rescue as well? I mean, no rescue is going to force you to re-home a Rottweiler when what you really want is a shih-tzu.

Ultimately if the rescue re-homed you a dog with a high prey drive, then they're at fault there, but my point is that a puppy could easily have the same problem - then what would you do? I think that's a reasonable question, tbh.

I still don't understand why a dog with a prey drive is a risk to people. Generally dogs with high prey drives have no interest in attacking people. A dog knows the difference between a small furry like a cat, rabbit or squirrel and a human!

Sometimes getting a puppy is less work than dealing with a rescue with engrained behavioural issues. No you’re not unreasonable.

We’ve had many dogs from pups, got a rescue and struck unlucky. He was a nightmare and we just were not the right house for him - the rescue weren’t exactly upfront about his issues and shouldn’t have put us together. Just get a puppy. You’ll love it

To be honest; I’ve had 2 rescues and 2 puppies.

The rescues had issues. Major ones.
One improved a lot; stopped chewing up the house/car when left alone but could never be walked off lead as she ran off.

The other rescue was an absolute nightmare. Incredibly reactive to everything, I got her at 5 months old and she had no socialisation so was incredibly nervous which turned into nervous aggression. House training was still very unreliable over a year later, chewed the house up. We had behaviourists and 1 to 1 training. I don’t have her anymore but only because I split up from my partner and her lifestyle work wise was much more dog friendly whereas on my own, I couldn’t care for a dog properly so she took her. Relationship broke down very badly so I have no idea how the dog is now. I hope she’s okay.

Two and a half years on, I now have a new puppy. I bought a pup this time because whilst the puppy stage is hard work, it is NOTHING like the rescues were. I’ve only had her a week so things may well change but I have marvelled every day how easy she is in comparison. Sure, she isn’t house trained, she’s a nippy little shark and she’s fairly anxious being left alone but she is super friendly and very confident for a young puppy.

I wouldn’t necessarily not get another rescue, but in my opinion it is easier to train a dog from scratch than solve ingrained behavioural problems.

There are some really shitty responses here.

OP I've had both and currently got a 6 month old pup. We had a beautifully kind natured rescue and were prepared for issues but had none at all with her. That was totally down to luck and came not long after we had to return a pup to the breeder because of various issues.

We were devastated when we had to return. We had 2 awesome years with our rescue before she sadly passed away. We now have a lab who was hard work at times but is turning into such a lovely family member.

You need time, patience but just because you've had one bad experience doesn't mean you'll have another.

Do your research and make sure you're fully informed before making any decision. It takes a hell of alot of work and you'll most likely have miserable days at the start.

Join some puppy groups and really take through the posts from people. It'll prepare you for what's coming if you get a pup.

Rake*

@vanillandhoney

I still don't understand why a dog with a prey drive is a risk to people. Generally dogs with high prey drives have no interest in attacking people. A dog knows the difference between a small furry like a cat, rabbit or squirrel and a human!

From reading the Op’s Posts - she wasn’t worried about the dog harming her - she was worried about the dog killing their cat. Who is indeed a small furry.

[quote Mumoftwoinprimary]@vanillandhoney

I still don't understand why a dog with a prey drive is a risk to people. Generally dogs with high prey drives have no interest in attacking people. A dog knows the difference between a small furry like a cat, rabbit or squirrel and a human!

From reading the Op’s Posts - she wasn’t worried about the dog harming her - she was worried about the dog killing their cat. Who is indeed a small furry.[/quote]
Her third post says she was "worried about everyone's safety". To me, that implies people, no?

vanilla surely you realise that rescues match you to a dog they think would suit you ... I’m so confused, to be honest.

Yes, you are correct insofar as you wouldn’t turn up wanting a westie and leave with a great Dane, but at the start of this journey we weren’t fussy about breed but about temperament. After a pretty horrible experience it’s not something we would do again.

And as for your question about breed, this is the point isn’t it? Some breeds might turn out to be the complete antithesis of their breed type and be advertised as gentle and good with children when in actual fact they are horrific but there’s still a difference between being bitten by a Doberman and bitten by a Maltese.

When you have a dog on a short leash lunging towards other smaller dogs, yes I do worry about everybody’s safety.

The poor animal must have been very stressed and who knows what it experienced before going into rescue. That doesn’t mean we could help.

OP, unfortunately MN can be batshit about dogs. Sorry to see you've been given such a hard time.

@Yeahnahmum

Plus....is your cat a vegan btw? Re: ripping another creature to pieces... As cats are... you know.... known for killing birds......and mice.....

Jesus Christ

@thewaterfromhere

vanilla surely you realise that rescues match you to a dog they think would suit you ... I’m so confused, to be honest.

Yes, you are correct insofar as you wouldn’t turn up wanting a westie and leave with a great Dane, but at the start of this journey we weren’t fussy about breed but about temperament. After a pretty horrible experience it’s not something we would do again.

And as for your question about breed, this is the point isn’t it? Some breeds might turn out to be the complete antithesis of their breed type and be advertised as gentle and good with children when in actual fact they are horrific but there’s still a difference between being bitten by a Doberman and bitten by a Maltese.

@thewaterfromhere It's clear the rescue made a huge mistake with regards to choosing a dog for you, and I'm sorry you went through a bad experience. It's totally normal not to want to go through that again.

I suppose my point is that any dog, no matter what size, can end up having a high prey drive, even if you raise it from a puppy. So I'm just curious as to what you'd do if the puppy turned out to have the same high prey-drive that the rescue did?

We have a dog and three cats - it's doable but it's taken a lot of work (we had our dog from a puppy) and even now aged nearly-three, he still goes through phases of wanting to chase our cats. If your puppy behaved that way, what plans do you have in place to control or handle the behaviour? Because in some ways it's totally natural for a dog to want to chase a cat - it's in their DNA.

I’ve tried to answer that vanilla ... we would deliberately be choosing a breed that doesn’t, but in any event puppies raised in a family home with cats from the start is unlikely to attack. I’m not totally inexperienced with dogs and I know dogs that happily co exist amongst cats, rabbits, guinea pigs. But not normally as adults.

@thewaterfromhere about 6 years ago we adopted a rescue dog, the place we got him from is known for being shit (we didn't know this at the time) they don't match dogs to you, you just choose one. The one we chose seemed lovely, when we got it home it was really aggressive, maybe it was adjusting but I was terrified of it, everyone my OH left the room it would turn on me, growl, turn its nose up. I ended up locking myself in the bedroom away from it, it went to bite my OH, we ended up returning it back to the rescue. The rescue said it was good with kids, personally I wouldn't have put it anywhere near a child.

A few years later we bought a Maltese pup and it was the best thing we did.
Rescues dogs aren't for everyone.

I’m all for rescues but I think there can sometimes be problems that there is denial about.
Kennels or catteries are very different environments to a home, and sometimes animals don’t exhibit their normal behaviours in them, or the environment doesn’t present the situation in which they would arise. So without any deception on their part, rescues will occasionally home animals described as affectionate or gentle, that once settled into a home, start a worrying behaviour. We had this with an adult rescue cat. We were experienced cat owners but after a couple of weeks with us, the cat started to bite hard, with none of the usual warning signs. She was affectionate 80% of the time. Bless my mum, she lived out her long natural life with her and mum bore the scars.

I can’t say this case is similar, but it is possible for things to go wrong and it be neither the new owner’s fault nor the rescues.

I’ve had 1 dog from a puppy and 2 as adults and the puppy was harder work but I enjoyed it. There was no difference in the degree to which we bonded. People are right to warn about the work involved with puppies but I wouldn’t assume that a failed rescue 100% points to an inadequate pet owner. People are very black and white.

I understand why you would choose a puppy. They can be trained to get along with your family and other pets. For example, my puppy wanted to eat our guinea pigs to start with (!) but lots of training through those early weeks now means he can be trusted not to go after them if someone is holding them in the same room and he's getting calmer with every bit of reinforcement that leaving them alone is a good thing.

He met our cat as a puppy, got his nose scratched and taught to leave her alone and now has a healthy respect for her. He might want to chase her still but is able to restrain himself. The only reason he wants to chase is youngster exuberance. He doesn't want to hurt her ie it's not aggression, more fun that drives his chasing. Obviously that's taught as unacceptable behaviour by the rest of the 'pack'.

It's a good, kind thing to rescue dogs but it isn't always the right decision for every household. I haven't had a rescue dog yet - mainly because I've always had young children or other pets in the house - but will think of doing so the next time I might want a dog, although hopefully by the time my current dog passes I may or may not want the responsibility. I;ve always said my current dog was my last puppy as they are hard work but would have to think carefully on a rescue if I have grandchildren etc by that time.

I blame the rescue here op! We had a bad experience with a rescue dog from the blue Cross, who turned out to have a very high prey drive and to be 'reactive' to other dogs. We were first time dog owners. We had a cat. It was not a good match. However, we kept him 3yrs and did so much work with him. I loved him. In the end though he tried to flip my newborn and treated her really weirdly, he couldn't be trusted, so we broke the rules by rehoming him to a friend rather than back into kennels for what would have been his third time. We have a second rescue dog who we got from a breed specific rescue charity who Foster in homes rather than use kennels and its been a totally different experience. That said, if you want a puppy then that's fine and a very normal thing to do. Just find a reputable breeder and be prepared to put the work in. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Sounds like the rescue didn’t evaluate this dog well at all.
BUT a breed won’t give you a guarantee. My wolfhounds live with cats. But I know others who have the same breed and theirs would kill a cat.
Just because you choose a breed you think will have a lower prey drive doesn’t mean it definitely will.
And a puppy and cats is not easy. It must NEVER be allowed to chase. It needs careful management.

you wouldn’t turn up wanting a westie and leave with a great Dane,

I know someone who went in for a Yorkie and came home with a husky...

PS, you obviously had a bad time with the rescue which wasn't your fault.

A carefully chosen puppy might well work out.

My parents got a cavalier King Charles and he got on very well with the family cat. Though nothing’s guaranteed if you really want a cat friendly dog I would recommend this breed. Though actually I do remember him chase away the neighbours cat but that was only after it tried to attack the now elderly family cat. I don’t thing he would have harmed the neighbours cat though.

To turn that question around then wolfie what would you have done if your wolfhound wanted to kill your cats?

I hate to break it to you, but I bought a puppy from an “assistance breed” type. She has never been abused or remotely mistreated. I have had dogs all my life. She is very, very loved and part of my family. She is anxious/dog-aggressive, completely nervous around kids, has a huge prey-drive, has shit recall, I would go so far as to say that she is completely unpredictable. We have to walk her at stupid o’clock in the morning and very late at night to minimize running into other dogs, etc.... She’s also bloody enormous (55kgs).... While she is adored, she’s bloody hard work, not remotely what I wanted from this breed (the exact opposite, in fact!). Luckily she is great with our kids who are teenagers, or I wouldn’t have kept her. I have dangerous dog signs up everywhere, and have to dissuade friends with little kids from visiting, unfortunately.

I’m very surprised you were allowed to take on a rescue dog to live with a cat! Maybe try something a little easier this time e.g. a stick insect or goldfish (to be kept shut away from the cat).

Thank you HTH. An extremely helpful post.

just I get the distinct impression you rather enjoyed ‘breaking” that to me.