Aibu to think that Johnson and co will somehow fuck up delivery of the covid vaccine?

[KenDodd]

That their incompetence will result in delays and even more unavoidable deaths. This opinion is based on their performance so far.

Yabu - They will handly it smoothly and competently.
Yanbu - They will fuck it up.

Do you

Italy 60m with 40m vaccine similar to us

Spain 46m with 20m vaccine less than us

What are you on about

Basic grasp god how irritating...

The main issue is that it is a complicated vaccine programme to role out. With Hancock suggesting that community GPs are being put on standby to deliver it from December but it is not simple

1. Needs to be stored at -80c until ready then you have 5 days in which to use it in. These are specialist freezers that GP surgeries don’t have
2. Each vial contains around 1000 doses so a GP practice need to do 200 doses day alongside all their other clinical work
3. It is not a prefilled syringe like many vaccinations these days. It takes time to draw up the vaccine adding to the each administration time
4. After giving a dose the patient needs to be observed for a minimum of 15 minutes. Essentially each appointment would need to be 30 minutes long by the time you include calling the patient in, drawing it up, observation and then letting patient leave.
5. The whole process needs to be repeated 3 weeks later for the booster dose
6. Add in that nursing home patients are meant to be vaccinated first with all those logistical issues.

Of course all these things can be overcome but there is a lot that can go wrong in this process and the fact they are talking about GP Practices being at the forefront of this doesn’t fill me with positivity. Even if GP practises come together to form hubs it won’t be smooth, far from it. A separate body to oversee this and run the programme on a national basis with pop up clinics would be better, with GPs supplying lists of their patients that need to be vaccinated in each wave would be better- won’t be plain sailing but less likely to catastrophic than what is currently being proposed for this particular vaccine.

Yes of course they will, we will find out that they forgot to put the second deposit down so Italy have swooped in and taken it all or something.

Or the army will use the wrong trucks and find it was stored badly and it's all gone off.

Or the records will get messed up leading people to be double dosed and wasting half the supply.

As a practice nurse I was at a meeting about this yesterday.
One removed from -75 degree storage and transferred to normal fridges, it has a five day shelf life.
There will be large central sites in each locality from where it will be administered, two doses 21 days apart. So old people who think they'll just be toddling off to the GP surgery for it are probably mistaken. Most don't have the storage, car parking or space for social distancing en masse. And anyone having driven to the site, needs to remain and be observed for 15 minutes.
The flu vaccine for all over 50's has now stalled, and may not go ahead.
Interesting times.

@MarshaBradyo

Basic grasp god how irritating...

And yet your previous post proves that you do not...

Why?

Explain to me

There is obviously no fixed proportion when you look at Italy allocation v Spain

Tell me how it is a percentage when they differ

You just keep insulting but haven’t backed up any statement with figures

Too irritating

Honestly you are just one of those negative people who bash around being depressing.

A scientific break through vaccine that people didn’t think was possible and moan moan moan.

Anyway hopefully Oxford will overcome some of logistical issues and number shortage.

Some still will find the negative. But I think the good news thread is more me.

@HomerRoberts

Not sarcasm nor rubbing my thighs with glee. I just don’t trust Boris to sort a piss up in a brewery.

I hope I’m wrong but he’s just a total pillock and if I don’t laugh I’ll cry!

Pfizer have organised the storage for the deep freeze bit so hard for us to f that up. It lasts five days in a normal fridge.
Honestly, we do a huge flu vaccine programme every year. We can cope with vaccination.
Let’s not be miserable about this!

@Oly4

Pfizer have organised the storage for the deep freeze bit so hard for us to f that up. It lasts five days in a normal fridge. Honestly, we do a huge flu vaccine programme every year. We can cope with vaccination. Let’s not be miserable about this!

It is a bit different to the flu vaccine programme though. First being you have to draw the vaccine up- flu vaccine comes in prefilled syringes, has a much longer shelf life and is delivered in multiple settings including pharmacies. I’m not negative but understand the difficulties so am realistic about how complicated this is going to be. Life will not be normal within a few months of the first doses being delivered- which is what some people and the press are making out.

2. Each vial contains around 1000 doses so a GP practice need to do 200 doses day alongside all their other clinical work

I don’t think this is true.

Please do not worry - they will pay a ton of money to a private company belonging to one of their mates, and we know how brilliantly this works.

MUSTJS I don’t think life will be normal in a few months but I do think the vaccine programme is achievable. And it’s not all on GP surgeries (which flu obviously is). There are plans for mass vaccination centres, pop ups and various other things. It’s not easy but it is doable

The NHS was already recruiting people to do vaccinations prior to the announcement.

@WiseUpJanetWeiss

2. Each vial contains around 1000 doses so a GP practice need to do 200 doses day alongside all their other clinical work

I don’t think this is true.

It is true-

www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/immunology-and-vaccines/gp-covid-vaccination-to-come-in-1000-dose-vials-with-five-day-shelf-life-once-defrosted/

@Oly4

MUSTJS I don’t think life will be normal in a few months but I do think the vaccine programme is achievable. And it’s not all on GP surgeries (which flu obviously is). There are plans for mass vaccination centres, pop ups and various other things. It’s not easy but it is doable

I didn’t say you did but some people do because this is being hyped by the media. I’ve pointed out the logistical difficulties with the programme. At the moment GPs are being asked to take the lead with the programme. And the flu vaccination isn’t only done by GP practices so your statement flu obviously is it false. Pharmacies can do your flu jab, I used to work in one and gave the flu vaccine as part of my role.

Each vial doesn't contain 1000 doses!
I think they will be delivered in batches of 750. With sites given very short notice of when that will be.
Experience tells me that few people return bang on time for subsequent doses of vaccine. They forget, become ill, go away, can't be bothered etc. It's not yet clear how late presentation will affect efficacy.

I think that will turn out to be incorrect. The smallest practicable injection dose is 0.1mL which would mean the vials would need to be 100mL capacity. The footage on the news showed vials of no more than 20mL. Regardless, multi dose vials that need to be stored at -80C present a significant logistical challenge.

Article says "The 1000 doses must be drawn from vials". We were told 750. Close enough.
It will be interesting to see who mans all these pop up sites when my clinics are still full of smears and child immunisations etc.

Having had some experience of the UKs military, i think peoples faith in them is misplaced.

Pfizer is a US company and BioNTec a German one, as i understand it, the UK is getting 10m doses initially?

If its down to the EU, then EU countries will have priority, the US will do what they always do and look after no1.

Anyone who doubts this, should consider what would happen if the Oxford vaccine was given to european countries before the UKs population had had it..... we'd all be perfectly happy with that wouldn't we?

Hopefully won’t be 1000 doses vials but that was what is stated in the article. Even if it 1000 doses delivered in multiple vials at a time it is still 200 doses a day to be given over 5 days as GP surgeries can’t store it at -75c. Let’s say it is 15 minutes a dose, that is 4 doses an hour per person. If that person puts in a 12 hour shift with no breaks that is 48 doses per person a day. So basically you would need 4 people working flat out for 5 days at a time, then repeat the process 3 weeks later. So while the practice nurses are busy doing this- as it will be them doing them in the main who is going to do child immunisations, dressing changes, smears, diabetic health checks, asthma checks. You are already waiting 3 weeks for a GP appointment on many areas- who is going to cover them to help out? We may be trying to recruit more people to do it at pop clinics but at the moment they are asking GP practices to run this thing.

It’s being commissioned by NHS England. And it’s a total shit show. If it ends up being a success it will be entirely down to the people on the ground making it happen.