To think Amazon is the future and should be bought by the state

[GoldfishParade]

This isnt meant to be a polarising discussion, more a debate. Theres lots of talk about supporting local businesses and not "feeding" Amazon. But in addition to the obvious advantages Amazon brings for people on low income, people living remotely, people who struggle to get out, doesnt Amazon also serve as a platform for small businesses to sell their stuff?

Instead of fighting Amazon, shouldn't we be embracing it as the future of retail, and instead think about how our high streets can be revolutionised to move away from retail and to be more about services and community spaces?

I even think Amazon should be franchised out to states so it becomes a public service. Or maybe ambitious states could copy Amazon's model and get rid of the post office and replace it with a kind of post office/Amazon hybrid.

I just cant help but think with shop owners that although I feel upset for them that they are struggling, we do also have to move with the times: and the times want 24h delivery and huge choice.

Maybe the old high street is dead and instead of trying to fight off the inevitable we should be looking at creative ways of bringing the high street back to life which totally break away from the old shop-focused model.

What do you think?

First totally get what you mean. Sometimes we have to work with stuff instead of against I. Although I can’t stop imagining Buy n Large from Wall-e...

The reason it is so efficient is because it’s so far removed from how public bodies operate. Public sector organizations are riddled with inefficiency, politics, entitled attitudes, fear of change, heirarchy, pointless posturing, the list goes on. Amazon is synonymous for speed, in the way it delivers and the way it operates internally, public sector speed just isn’t capable of that.

I see your point about traditional retail dying though and that fighting it is basically a flat earth argument.

To take a different stance from the poster above, the public sector is "riddled" with things like full time jobs, employee rights, decent holidays, breaks for food and using the toilet. Quite different from the Amazon model.

@thedevilinablackdress

To take a different stance from the poster above, the public sector is "riddled" with things like full time jobs, employee rights, decent holidays, breaks for food and using the toilet. Quite different from the Amazon model.

You don’t know Amazon model. You’re getting your information from t’internet or the guardian.

I think amazon is amazing. A business is designed to make money. Millions of fancy pants find loop holes in how to keep their millions and no particular fuss is made. Bloody love amazon.

Do you work for them sst1234 ?

Never going to happen, totally unrealistic, daft idea.

Public sector would destroy all the good things about Amazon.

You have to ask permission to use the loo.. Leaving your work station can result in disciplinary action.
I used to work at one of their depots.

If the state bought it, it would follow the trail of BHS within a few years, having watched the omni-shambles of the last few months, there is no evidence it would work. Plus it is not a public good, and shouldn't be treated as such.

The “state” has been run into the ground. There’s essentially nothing left of it, apart from disparate underfunded local authorities and the struggling healthcare and education sectors. There isn’t the funding, manpower or skill or desire to make Amazon into a public service. I boycott it wherever possible due to the company’s human rights abuses and ceaseless tax dodging.

Amazon is a platform, with great logistics. I wish small business would give in and use it and take advantage of the delivery benefits and realise people buy more when stuff arrives fast.

@thedevilinablackdress

To take a different stance from the poster above, the public sector is "riddled" with things like full time jobs, employee rights, decent holidays, breaks for food and using the toilet. Quite different from the Amazon model.

This, exactly. Lightning fast delivery of a billion different things comes at a price. Amazon is kind enough to not put a financial cost to the consumer, instead they work their employees like dogs for minimum wage.

I don’t think government could or would operate that way. Do you think there is a way to reconcile that, OP?

Public sector organizations are riddled with inefficiency, politics, entitled attitudes, fear of change, heirarchy, pointless posturing, the list goes on

I work in public sector procurement, and this resonates with me. If there’s a way to over complicate, slow down the process, waste resources and avoid changing for the better, public sector will do it.

You don’t know Amazon model. You’re getting your information from t’internet or the guardian.

I think you are attempting to be patronizing, @sst1234 but I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. When you intimate that it is foolish to get information from “t’internet”, are you talking about the regular internet, the one we all use, with millions of different primary and secondary sources? Obviously you always have to consider your source and evaluate what you are reading but to suggest the whole of the internet is a bad place to gather info is hopelessly uninformed. (Apologies if that’s not what you meant by “t’internet”.)

Even when the state wasn't run in to the ground there is zero evidence that nationalising sectors with purely commercial purposes ends well. It took the UK Steel industry from one of the most innovative in the world to none existent, so why anyone thinks disrupting a very effective system would improve anything is an odd idea.

Also regarding the death of what we call 'retail' is not a new phenomenon. Prior to relatively recently shops used to involve the owner getting the items requested by the customer, and dealing with them that way, post war we moved to a 'self service' browsing way. As far as I can see online is simply the latest iteration of this, and it would seem luddite to oppose the inevitable, which has been brought about by consumer choice.

@ParrotheadRedux

What if Amazon added a "tipping" option to every order?

So say you're buying a diary, it costs £8. Delivery is free. Then you can also check the box saying "£2 tip".

All these "tips" could then go into a pot that's split monthly between all on the ground employees. I'm pretty sure lots of people would pay it. For many of us I think the appeal of Amazon isnt price but speed and choice: we would pay the tip.

Watch the film 'The Circle'. That is all.

I can’t decide how to vote, as I partially agree with you. I agree this sort of model is the future, I don’t agree the government should run it.

Thing is it's monopolizing, once enough competitors have closed down it's likely prices will rise, delivery times don't have to be so quick because there'll be fewer other companies to try and beat etc. They might not, but they are a business after all, and if taken into country ownership there would be even less to compete with, and the consumer loses out either way eventually. What would you replace the high street with? I agree it's not sustainable as is even without covid, some places have more than one of the same shop, and you can get most of what you need in a supermarket. But what I don't really get is why we are all keen to have it as easy as possible, in order to work more? Spend less time outside and more at home doing whatever? Meeting with friends, browsing the shops is for me much more than just buying something, it's the experience, I know people like me are probably in the minority now, and I definitely see a place for Amazon especially for 'essentials', and understand for some it's a neccessity and makes life easier. I don't see Amazon as bad, but similarly don't think it should be taken over and expanded that way, if that makes sense.

I don't think tipping is the way to go. Paying people properly in the first place is. Jeff Bezos doesn't need any more billions.

Infrastructure makes sense to be run by the state - it would be difficult if the only roads we had were ones which private companies had deemed to be profitable, for example. The question is, is Amazon now infrastructure?