To think Amazon is the future and should be bought by the state

[GoldfishParade]

This isnt meant to be a polarising discussion, more a debate. Theres lots of talk about supporting local businesses and not "feeding" Amazon. But in addition to the obvious advantages Amazon brings for people on low income, people living remotely, people who struggle to get out, doesnt Amazon also serve as a platform for small businesses to sell their stuff?

Instead of fighting Amazon, shouldn't we be embracing it as the future of retail, and instead think about how our high streets can be revolutionised to move away from retail and to be more about services and community spaces?

I even think Amazon should be franchised out to states so it becomes a public service. Or maybe ambitious states could copy Amazon's model and get rid of the post office and replace it with a kind of post office/Amazon hybrid.

I just cant help but think with shop owners that although I feel upset for them that they are struggling, we do also have to move with the times: and the times want 24h delivery and huge choice.

Maybe the old high street is dead and instead of trying to fight off the inevitable we should be looking at creative ways of bringing the high street back to life which totally break away from the old shop-focused model.

What do you think?

As PP have said, the public sector will destroy all that is good with Amazon. So, YABU to suggest they are nationalised.

The high Street is well and truly dead. Yes it is bad for people's jobs. But perhaps the government could look at ways to bring more entry level, low skilled jobs to the country and replace the vacuum that was created by the decline in manufacturing jobs in this country in the 70s and 80s.

I think people are misunderstood about the concept of a 'public good'. www.economicshelp.org/micro-economic-essays/marketfailure/public-goods/
Amazon operates and makes money by providing a huge range of products from either 3rd party sellers or it's own stocks and delivering them. It does not fit the criteria of a public good such as a road because;
There can be competition in selling goods online and delivering them.
It is a direct contract between the customers and Amazon, there is no 'free rider' problem occurring.
As such this is a commercial venture and the government has no business operating such a business, where maintenance of roads facilitates economic activity, but cannot be directly charged to the consumer, so makes more sense for the state to operate.

I worked on a production line screwing tops on toilet cleaner during uni holidays. You had to ask to go to the loo and someone took over your position for 5 mins. If you went over time you got bollocked. It’s not a new thing or exclusive to Amazon.

You weren't allowed to go to the toilet at M&S either!

Thats affordable

Amazon's a technology company though, that just happens to do retail. Public sector wouldn't know what to do with it.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Amazon is a platform, with great logistics. I wish small business would give in and use it and take advantage of the delivery benefits and realise people buy more when stuff arrives fast.

I agree. A lot of smaller businesses/shops, etc., have shunned Amazon rather than embraced it, and are now suffering from outdated business models. Lots and lots of new businesses have started up solely using the Amazon marketplace/fulfilled by Amazon business models. One of my clients is such a new business start-up - went from zero turnover to three quarters of a million turnover in just a couple of years. Meanwhile, other clients with bricks n mortar shops are reluctant to even put a shopping cart on their (£299) website and are just watching their sales fall month by month. The internet is here to stay, they need to embrace it rather than fight it.

@Student133

I think people are misunderstood about the concept of a 'public good'. www.economicshelp.org/micro-economic-essays/marketfailure/public-goods/ Amazon operates and makes money by providing a huge range of products from either 3rd party sellers or it's own stocks and delivering them. It does not fit the criteria of a public good such as a road because; There can be competition in selling goods online and delivering them. It is a direct contract between the customers and Amazon, there is no 'free rider' problem occurring. As such this is a commercial venture and the government has no business operating such a business, where maintenance of roads facilitates economic activity, but cannot be directly charged to the consumer, so makes more sense for the state to operate.

A further point is that successive Govts have fouled things up when they've tried to improve public services by artificial competition, i.e. where hospitals compete against eachother for funding to do routine treatments, or the railway network is artificially fragmented so it can be privatised, etc., etc. Even Royal Mail, a company that could have really bought into online shopping delivery were ridiculously slow to bring in tracked deliveries, affordable next day delivery options (Yes I know they're not public sector anymore, but their ethos and management remains outdated) - they could have been Amazon's number 1 delivery firm, but other courier firms were leaps and bounds ahead in terms of tracking etc.

Fuck no. The tax payer doesn't need to be paying Amazon for their non essential service.

[quote GoldfishParade]@ParrotheadRedux

What if Amazon added a "tipping" option to every order?

So say you're buying a diary, it costs £8. Delivery is free. Then you can also check the box saying "£2 tip".

All these "tips" could then go into a pot that's split monthly between all on the ground employees. I'm pretty sure lots of people would pay it. For many of us I think the appeal of Amazon isnt price but speed and choice: we would pay the tip.[/quote]
What an awful idea. People should be paid a fair wage; customers shouldn’t have to subsidise their income.

Tipping is not okay and it shouldn’t be encouraged.

[quote GoldfishParade]@ParrotheadRedux

What if Amazon added a "tipping" option to every order?

So say you're buying a diary, it costs £8. Delivery is free. Then you can also check the box saying "£2 tip".

All these "tips" could then go into a pot that's split monthly between all on the ground employees. I'm pretty sure lots of people would pay it. For many of us I think the appeal of Amazon isnt price but speed and choice: we would pay the tip.[/quote]
Why should someone get paid for other's work?

@emilyfrost S an American who is surrounded by the inequalities of the tipping system I whole heartedly agree with you. Amazon will just lower the hourly wage

I don't agree with you. Most of what Amazon sells can be bought on line from smaller companies, ie books could be bought from Waterstones. I also try and support small
businesses on Etsy, selling things that aren't mass produced. This is just my ethos.

@Ingvermama
....Etsy is a selling platform the same as Amazon...

The only way Amazon (not to mention most other multi-nationals) is able to be "efficient" and profitable is because it is built on exploitation of its workforce. It's some sort of dystopia where Amazon is state-owned.

The warehouse....

@GoldfishParade I love your attitude and I hope you would be right. But the cynic in me finds it hard to believe people would be willing to tip employees of a state agency affiliated with a bazillion-pound company. Or people would just assume others are doing it. And truly, with the frequency I some people order things a few pounds each time would add up quickly. As a family we receive 20+ Amazon packages per month. An extra £60/month would be more than enough to send me back to Costco.

I’m also not sure people would do it. Take Deliveroo, for example. I always tip at least £5 (more lately) because I am American so used to tipping and I understand how hard it is to make a living in the gig economy, but also because quite frankly I won’t miss £5 two or three times a month. But I’ve discussed it with friends and most of them tip £1-2 or not at all. The anonymity of the internet, especially now where you don’t even interact with the driver, makes it very easy for people to skip the gratuity.

As much as I admire your idealism OP, I think anything more than a de minimis price would make the business model unrecognizable.

Goldfish Etsy is a selling platform, but it's all handmade things and crafty things being sold by people from small companies, no staff in vast warehouses. All things are delivered using Royal Mail, I've even collected things myself from the sellers house!

Also I'm just an old hippy supporting the little businesses and buying local where I can

[quote ParrotheadRedux]@GoldfishParade I love your attitude and I hope you would be right. But the cynic in me finds it hard to believe people would be willing to tip employees of a state agency affiliated with a bazillion-pound company. Or people would just assume others are doing it. And truly, with the frequency I some people order things a few pounds each time would add up quickly. As a family we receive 20+ Amazon packages per month. An extra £60/month would be more than enough to send me back to Costco.

I’m also not sure people would do it. Take Deliveroo, for example. I always tip at least £5 (more lately) because I am American so used to tipping and I understand how hard it is to make a living in the gig economy, but also because quite frankly I won’t miss £5 two or three times a month. But I’ve discussed it with friends and most of them tip £1-2 or not at all. The anonymity of the internet, especially now where you don’t even interact with the driver, makes it very easy for people to skip the gratuity.

As much as I admire your idealism OP, I think anything more than a de minimis price would make the business model unrecognizable.[/quote]
Why should anyone tip? We’re not American; we have a minimum wage.

It’s not a customers job to subsidise wages and the onus shouldn’t be put on them; nobody should feel guilty for not topping up wages.

I'm sorry, I don't want to be rude, but it's honestly blowing my mind that anyone is credulously discussing tipping the exploited and underpaid employees of the world's richest man. Jeff Bezos is worth two hundred BILLION dollars. Imagine if - god forbid - he was compelled to pay his workers properly, let alone his taxes.

Well said Mybobbowler
People can do well in life by having a good idea / 'working hard'. People get to be billionaires off the back of other peoples labour.

Here are some typical things that people complain about a lot:

• Waiting weeks for a GP appointment
• Waiting months for a specialist hospital appointment
• The way the Jobcentre treats people, benefit sanctions, etc, just because you turned up two minutes late to an appointment
• Long waiting lists for council housing, having to bid on them, and sometimes being sent a long way away to live in a strange town
• Only being able to choose schools in your area, regardless of if they're good or not
• Moving house means your children having to change schools if you no longer live in the area
• People going to job interviews where it was clear they'd already chosen an external candidate
• Good grief, the bureaucracy levels of those application forms to apply for public sector jobs

Now imagine you apply those levels of service to Amazon.

tectonicplates if companies like Amazon paid their taxes, it'd go a way to fixing some of those things.

The future is not state ownership.