To think that we shouldn’t be coming out of lockdown for Christmas?

[LockdownForChristmas]

Yesterday we had the highest total of cases yet since the beginning of the pandemic. And the death rate is going up day on day. They’re attributing it not to mass testing but to the fact that when lockdown was announced people rushed to see each other and hence the virus spread more.

If we open up on the 2nd of December people will just rush out to the pubs and the shops and each other’s houses and we’ll be back here in the new year.

It would be far better to stay in lockdown until the new year and then hopefully start the year on a reducing case rate.

And yes, I know it’s Christmas, but tonight is Diwali, and nobody is suggesting we should come out of lockdown so people can celebrate that, so why should we just because it’s Christmas?

Lockdowns simply don't work.

There is an irony that many people seem to be missing about the fact that the lockdown announcement made people go mad and party on the last few days before it started which meant cases rose. Had we stayed with the tiers that would not have happened...so the lockdown actually achieved what it was set up to prevent: a sudden rise in cases.

Many people are ignoring the lockdown this time around. Any extension will simply result in more people ignoring it even more.

Enough of this charade. Shield the vulnerable and the elderly but the rest of the population should go back to business.

I don't think anyone here is actually arguing for "carrying on as normal". Even Tier 1 isn't anyone's idea of normal. But another long lockdown isn't sustainable, enforceable (compliance over Christmas - good luck with that) or affordable, and will cause massive harms of its own.

I think they’ve set themselves up to fail and left it far too late. Should’ve done this in October.

We’ve only got 2 1/2 weeks left of this “lockdown” and only just seen a spike in daily cases (possibly due to people mixing more on 4th Nov, we’ll see).

The R is down to about 1.2 and what I don’t think many people seem to understand is that means cases will be double in one month. So not 50,000 per day but 100,000 per day.

Given that after the first lockdown we only managed to bring the R down under 1 after months and months, I can’t see us being in a better position in early December.

I don't think we should be risking our lives for one day. I have parents in their 70s if we numbers are still high I will have to drive through the country potentially picking Covid up at every stop. I'm also pregnant so I'm not keen to risk it myself. Plus in all honesty I quite fancy ONE Xmas in my own house...

The premise send to be to manage waves, to allow the economy to upstairs until we get to a point where the NHS might be in trickle then lockdown. We'll be open for December, Christmas will happen but with some limitations, maybe no more than two households/bubbles mixing at a time or a limit on numbers although that always seemed nonsensical - can meet five people from five households (pre lockdown), but can't meet my brother SIL and two nephews, with my husband and son even though whatever I have my households have and the same for DB.
Then there will be another lockdown in January, rinse , repeat until vaccinations start having an impact and spring hits.
Just my prediction

I'm also pregnant so I'm not keen to risk it myself. Plus in all honesty I quite fancy ONE Xmas in my own house

Well why don’t you just do that regardless? You don’t have to be in lockdown to have xmas in your house.

Our national holidays are based on Christian holidays and so to say people are not practising because they don’t do it in a way you believe Christians should is a bit dismissive of them.

I was the one who queried the “59% practising Christians” statement because it was plainly nonsense - and however you loosely term “practising” it still is.

@KitKatastrophe

Death rates in January are going to be horrific & unfortunately it will be largely innocent people. It will be ENTIRELY innocent people. People who choose to celebrate christmas with their families are not "guilty".

Personally I think people going to house parties & shagging around etc are not exactly 'innocent'. They are not doing all they could to stop transmission.

Death rates in January are going to be horrific & unfortunately it will be largely innocent people.
It will be ENTIRELY innocent people. People who choose to celebrate christmas with their families are not "guilty

That very much depends on if they break rules for that celebration. If we go back to tiers, many can’t have indoor visitors.

Death rates in January are going to be horrific & unfortunately it will be largely innocent people.

Let's look on brightside, maybe they won't be horrific.

@AllTheUserNamesAreTaken

And our pubs, restaurants, cinemas, gyms, soft play, zoos, clothes shops.....need I go on? It clearly is a form of lockdown and it is insulting to these businesses which may not survive to suggest otherwise

& completely missing my point!!!

It is POINTLESS inflicting this on businesses when so many have wiggled out if it (shops suddenly selling 'food' to change their status to 'essential' & other businesses that really are NOT ESSENTIAL & while schools are open. SOME businesses are closed & suffering when too many have stayed open AND the biggest issue is that schools have stayed open.

It is NOT 'lockdown' of enough of the population so I feel many businesses & people are suffering without it going to have a big enough impact on the virus. It's half arsed.

So friend of mine was talking about some teachers who have got covid or suspected covid

And she said the the woman with covids son had come back from uni....cue lots of nodding agreement

So this teacher in some minds had the virus and passed it on because of her uni son

Not shopping, not working in a school, not getting accidentally too close to a friend ....nope, with no evidence whatsoever it must be her uni son

This is what happens when we say people are guilty and innocent

Teacher = innocent

Uni student = guilty

It is NOT 'lockdown' of enough of the population so I feel many businesses & people are suffering without it going to have a big enough impact on the virus. It's half arsed

This

@squashyhat

I think it's extremely unfair that we will be in lockdown for Diwali and yet everyone is going nuts that we 'must' get it lifted for Christmas. We're not a Christian country any more (and Christmas isn't about religion for most people anyway) so why penalise those who want to celebrate a festival of a different faith with their families?

At least be consistent.

Christmas is a bank holiday and is celebrated by the huge majority of Brits - including those who aren't practicising Christians - to at least some degree. It is also the busiest and most profitable time of year for many thousands of people working in the retail and hospitality industries. It is the biggest annual festival in the British calendar. Diwali simply isn't. No comprison.

@Pumpertrumper

It’s very hard to completely trash businesses, forcing many to collapse/close and thousands of job losses, whilst refusing to close the schools/colleges and unis which statistically caused the largest outbreaks of covid.

We live in city, when uni/schools came back the numbers In our city more than tripled and figures for each ward showed that the university area had
5x higher cases than anywhere else in the city. The numbers were damning and could not be argued with.

I’d rather they’d closed at least the Uni’s than local coffee shops

Exactly!!

@Requinblanc. try reading WHY this would not work. There's plenty of information out there.

Even bloody Boris understands why we can't do that.

If HE can grasp it, I'm sure if you try, you'll get there.

@Againstmachine

Death rates in January are going to be horrific & unfortunately it will be largely innocent people.

Let's look on brightside, maybe they won't be horrific.

Maybe night won't follow day either. 🙄

The virus is spread by people. Packing people into unventilated houses for Christmas Day & Christmas parties, WILL lead to a huge jump in cases which will lead to deaths. Suggesting it won't is just daft. Do you really think the virus will be taking a few days off?

My opinion is that if we're doing all this to relieve pressure on the NHS, to stop the spread and protect the vulnerable then either:

a) We can't relax and spread it 'because it's Christmas' as lots of people will die and the NHS will be overwhelmed.
OR
b) It's okay to relax, because the measures were OTT in the first place.

But, this virus is either a danger or it's not. You can't pick and choose dates when it becomes okay.

My opinion is that if we're doing all this to relieve pressure on the NHS, to stop the spread and protect the vulnerable

Well yes we are, apparently.

However we have to balance this against the exceptional impact on the economics of our society and our own wellbeing.

Christmas is crucial to both the above, so in the interests of balance, opening up in December (knowing we’ll have to crack down again in Jan) might be the better option.

Keeping locked down until numbers are super low is a death knell for many businesses.

I hope that we are still locked down fir Christmas for purely selfish reasons; I'm the only adult female in my extended family and every year since I had children, everyone has assumed I'll 'do' Christmas. This year I want a valid excuse to tell all the entitled adults in my family to sod off and give me a rest. I've been running around since March catering for them, including those isolating for existing health reasons and, in one case, a single adult who caught Covid after an extended trip abroad . Said adult is independently wealthy and hasn't worked for 3 years through choice. Added to which I've been coping with clinically depressed DP, gcse age children (that was fun and god knows what's in store for DC2 next summer) and trying to keep my business going. I don't think I'm selfish, just exhausted. Rant over- I'm awarding myself a before anyone else does.

This year I want a valid excuse to tell all the entitled adults in my family to sod off and give me a rest.

You do not need a lockdown to achieve this. You need to put on your big girl pants and tell them no.

Of course lock down work, it worked over March, April, May, June, enough to be able to go out and eat and go on holiday.
. The virus is passed via transmission so if course stopping or reducing transmission will slow the virus.
. Nothing, not even a vaccine will totally eradicate covid!!

Hindus account for less than 1.5% of the population in the U.K.

Sikhs also celebrate Diwali, but for different reasons. Also Hindus and Sikhs often include others in their celebrations, Versakhi is quite a big deal where I am and it isn't just Sikhs enjoying the food and the fair.

@sashh

Hindus account for less than 1.5% of the population in the U.K.

Sikhs also celebrate Diwali, but for different reasons. Also Hindus and Sikhs often include others in their celebrations, Versakhi is quite a big deal where I am and it isn't just Sikhs enjoying the food and the fair.

Easter is a big deal for Christians too - in fact it's the most sacred festival of the year for them. But we were under full lockdown this Easter and few complained.

@dopenguinsdance

I hope that we are still locked down fir Christmas for purely selfish reasons; I'm the only adult female in my extended family and every year since I had children, everyone has assumed I'll 'do' Christmas. This year I want a valid excuse to tell all the entitled adults in my family to sod off and give me a rest. I've been running around since March catering for them, including those isolating for existing health reasons and, in one case, a single adult who caught Covid after an extended trip abroad . Said adult is independently wealthy and hasn't worked for 3 years through choice. Added to which I've been coping with clinically depressed DP, gcse age children (that was fun and god knows what's in store for DC2 next summer) and trying to keep my business going. I don't think I'm selfish, just exhausted. Rant over- I'm awarding myself a before anyone else does.

You don't need a biscuit just put yourself first for once and tell them now lockdown or not you're not doing it. If they argue ask why they think it's always your turn. Selfish beggars.