To think that we shouldn’t be coming out of lockdown for Christmas?

[LockdownForChristmas]

Yesterday we had the highest total of cases yet since the beginning of the pandemic. And the death rate is going up day on day. They’re attributing it not to mass testing but to the fact that when lockdown was announced people rushed to see each other and hence the virus spread more.

If we open up on the 2nd of December people will just rush out to the pubs and the shops and each other’s houses and we’ll be back here in the new year.

It would be far better to stay in lockdown until the new year and then hopefully start the year on a reducing case rate.

And yes, I know it’s Christmas, but tonight is Diwali, and nobody is suggesting we should come out of lockdown so people can celebrate that, so why should we just because it’s Christmas?

It would make a lot more sense to try to keep shops etc.. and the economy running, and ban people from mixing up in large groups. No one needs to have a table of 25 to celebrate Christmas. You can just celebrate within a small bubble.

Don't cancel Christmas, just put a few stricter rules. I won't happen, but it really is not such a big deal to have a smaller or no family gathering. And I am very big on Christmas!

I agree with op but I doubt our opinions will be popular. Whatever, December 2nd is far too early.

They are about to open a 3rd covid ward at my wifes trust, she in the last week has had to deal with 8 covid deaths personally, while she is used to death to an extent because of her profession, she says this is different, and is effecting her mental health, i fear she will end up with ptsd!

We've already made the decision as a family to stay apart at Christmas. Spending Xmas without my Nan is shit but her surviving this is more important than Christmas.

The idea that more people might die around Xmas because many people are too pig headed to do the right thing is so sad.

@Nottherealslimshady

I'm putting money on lockdown ending on the 23rd. Restaurants, pubs and shops will be able to open as before lockdown 2, families up to 6 people to gather inside.

Don’t put on more than you can afford to lose. There’s no way the shops will be closed in the run up to Christmas. I’m with @Bluntness100, my money’s on the 2nd.

There is a desperation on the part of the government to ensure that families can meet over Christmas (and a belief that if there were restrictions on doing so, they would be largely ignored). That does not stop the government keeping pubs shut (I am OK with this) and having a period of other restrictions post Christmas.

And yes, I know it’s Christmas, but tonight is Diwali, and nobody is suggesting we should come out of lockdown so people can celebrate that, so why should we just because it’s Christmas?

Well the thing is, the vast majority of the country whether they are Christian or not celebrate Christmas - and even if they don't it is a national holiday. Whereas Diwali isn't really part of the majority of the UK's cultural calendar so I think comparing them is a bit of a straw man type of argument.

I do agree though it does seem silly to release people from lockdown for Christmas when cases are already rising - the virus isn't going to take a break from spreading just because it's Christmas! Something sensible like saying two households can spend the time together would make more sense. Although most people I've spoken to seem to be planning to see whoever they like then anyway..

It would make a lot more sense to try to keep shops etc.. and the economy running, and ban people from mixing up in large groups. No one needs to have a table of 25 to celebrate Christmas. You can just celebrate within a small bubble.

Absolutely.

There might be daily covid deaths but there aren’t excess deaths overall are there?

Yes, there are:
mobile.twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1326888614035415040

@Ginfilledcats

Of course the cases are going up, the mass testing of 1000s of people started in Liverpool this week! Test more = find more.

God knows what this gov will so though!

The mass testing in Liverpool found a few hundred infections, so will have made little difference to the overall UK numbers. mobile.twitter.com/avds/status/1326935559080644610

I fully expect that some sort of lockdown will be imposed beyond Dec 2 but in a different name.

A lot of shopping can now b done online - and not just Amazon. And I seriously doubt the numbers will have come down meaningfully by then.

@userxx

Tell our hairdressers that.

And pub landlords.

And beauticians

And independent stores

@MercyBooth

'Lockdown' because it's really not is it

Tell our hairdressers that.

Yes those industries currently shut down - and DH is in hairdressing - have done all that was required of them regarding making premises covid-19 safe, at considerable expense, and yet still they’re closed down. There are millions of the self employed not in receipt of any financial assistance. Please God, don’t let this lockdown be extended. We’ve just got to get on with life and learn to live with this virus. It’s not going anywhere, anytime soon. Can’t keep going in and out of lockdown indefinitely.

@LockdownForChristmas

Yesterday we had the highest total of cases yet since the beginning of the pandemic. And the death rate is going up day on day. They’re attributing it not to mass testing but to the fact that when lockdown was announced people rushed to see each other and hence the virus spread more.

If we open up on the 2nd of December people will just rush out to the pubs and the shops and each other’s houses and we’ll be back here in the new year.

It would be far better to stay in lockdown until the new year and then hopefully start the year on a reducing case rate.

And yes, I know it’s Christmas, but tonight is Diwali, and nobody is suggesting we should come out of lockdown so people can celebrate that, so why should we just because it’s Christmas?

because Christianity is the official religion of the UK ?

@squashyhat

I think it's extremely unfair that we will be in lockdown for Diwali and yet everyone is going nuts that we 'must' get it lifted for Christmas. We're not a Christian country any more (and Christmas isn't about religion for most people anyway) so why penalise those who want to celebrate a festival of a different faith with their families?

At least be consistent.

It doesn’t matter what religion you are ( or aren’t). Christmas Day and Boxing Day are national bank holidays. Same as New Years Day.

I think they will feel they have no choice but to officially end lockdown on 2nd December. Many companies will not survive if they cant trade in the run up to Christmas - its not just the gifts, but the hairdressers and beauticians and taxi companies and pubs who do need people to be able to use their services that month. Particularly if NYE celebrations are cancelled.

Hopefully they can start vaccinating the vunerable early in 2021, at least then it doesn't matter as much how many of the non-vunerable population have it. Weve not seen PIL since the dcs went back to school as FIL is in the shielding group. If I knew they'd had the vaccination, I'd be less worried about the dcs spending time with them.

I hope we’re still locked down, it’s the only way to avoid my brother and his knobby girlfriend.

There is a desperation on the part of the government to ensure that families can meet over Christmas

Purely the part who thinks the votes of the grandparents is absolutely essential to their election chances, and it's grandparents not seeing their grand kids that is the thing they think will harm that.

They don't give a shit about how much harm is caused to everyone else, as long as they keep getting those grandparents votes - obviously I believe this lockdown is causing more harm than it gains, so would advocate lifting it immediately, but "go spend christmas together" is not part of the no lockdown strategy either.

@MissMarplesGlove

And yes, I know it’s Christmas, but tonight is Diwali, and nobody is suggesting we should come out of lockdown so people can celebrate that, so why should we just because it’s Christmas?

I totally agree, OP.

What a lot of people just don't seem to understand is that transmission is

closeness + time.

So the most "dangerous" places are our homes.

Fine if, when a household member is infectious, the whole household isolates. But when they don't and people mix inside each other's homes - then it spreads.

Mixing households has always been either discouraged or not allowed, but of course, people who want to do it, and who don't care about infection & transmission rates will (selfishly) do it anyway. Selfish, and not very bright to boot ...

@MissMarplesGlove I understand that. What if we all have a Covid test 2 days before Christmas? Can we all get together then? Assuming none of us have it of course.

But its not really about Christmas the day, but Christmas season spending the government needs to protect.

I looked at the website of a big carpet chain this week and it's all over the site "book now for fitting before Christmas", the spending that goes in to making houses "guest ready" is crazy.

After such a tough year for so many companies, they need Christmas spending.

I don't agree. I don't care intensely about 25 December, but I do care about the unsustainable social, economic and emotional cost of another prolonged lockdown. And if we reopen in January, what then? Even under the most optimistic scenario (vaccine ready to roll in the new year) it will take months to get it out to even just the most vulnerable. Even covering care home staff and residents means vaccinating one million people. Cases will rise again straight away, especially as fatigue with restrictions will be massive. So are we up for Lockdown 3 in March?

Also I wonder what the "It all comes down to money tut tut" people actually live on? Air?

There's no way indoor mixing bans will be in place from the 24th-1st. Boris doesn't want to stand there and announce that.

I agree that we will go back into tiers for 3 weeks at the end of this lockdown period.

@squashyhat

I think it's extremely unfair that we will be in lockdown for Diwali and yet everyone is going nuts that we 'must' get it lifted for Christmas. We're not a Christian country any more (and Christmas isn't about religion for most people anyway) so why penalise those who want to celebrate a festival of a different faith with their families?

At least be consistent.

As a previous poster pointed out, no accommodation was made for Easter, even though it's the more important Christian holiday by a fair margin. Churches weren't even meeting in many cases.

Christmas is simply so widely observed that it would likely be foolish to try and be very strict about it. Even people who belong to other religions altogether often observe it socially to some extent.

I do think though that this kind of problem is a reason to recommend an approach more like the Swedes. A family like yours could choose to be a little more lax and meet with more people for Diwali, but remain at home for Christmas and for Christmas related events, and others could observe Christmas but not Diwali, and so on.

When you are trying to create rules for everyone they end up necessarily generalised.

@SomewhereEast

I don't agree. I don't care intensely about 25 December, but I do care about the unsustainable social, economic and emotional cost of another prolonged lockdown. And if we reopen in January, what then? Even under the most optimistic scenario (vaccine ready to roll in the new year) it will take months to get it out to even just the most vulnerable. Even covering care home staff and residents means vaccinating one million people. Cases will rise again straight away, especially as fatigue with restrictions will be massive. So are we up for Lockdown 3 in March?

I don't think it's sustainable. I'm not sure who even thought it would be, for a year or more, to try and change people's social behaviour at that level, not to mention the whole structure of the economy and schools and childcare, which would be necessary for it to work effectively.

It's always been kind of a fool's errand.