To just want a full nights sleep?

[TheUnwindingCableCar]

Our daughter turns 4 later this month and she has only ever slept through the night once (maybe twice) since she was born

Does anyone have any tips?

She has her own room with a bed she chose with a tent over it and all her teddies and comforts.

She has a night lights left on.

She just won't stay asleep for longer than 3-4 hours without waking. And that's if we're lucky. Often she wakes every hour until 2am

If we let her sleep in our bed or on a put up bed in our room she will sleep slightly better but not much and she can't sleep in our bed permanently because it's giving me really bad backache sharing with a starfishing 4 year old.

I thought starting nursery would help tire her out but it hasn't made any difference. Neither does trying to tire her out on walks or letting her go to bed later.

I just want to sleep

Other things to try

Music that can stay on all night - Dd likes rockabye baby Foo fighters on xylophone?!

We've got a calming children's meditation cd for bedtime

The doctor prescribed melatonin tablets on advice of the sleep consultant. I actually don't think they really helped us with night wakings, but they definitely had an effect at bedtime.

Oh and make sure you're night light is a red one

My dd used to wake up in the night still at 5. Well she didn’t exactly wake up - she’d wake ME up because she’d lose the duvet or kick it off, and then make really loud moaning noises until I came and put it back on. She stayed asleep so couldn’t put it back on herself. She grew out of it eventually!

I do feel for you though. I’m sure PPs are right that she needs to learn to fall asleep by herself.

@TheUnwindingCableCar your daughter is younger then mine was when we did bedtime tokens, my Dd was a month off 5. Do you think she'll understand? I'm comparing to my ds who is 3y6m and I'm not sure if he would... I do think he'd understand drawing a book of sleep rules and a reward chart though.

I'd seek help from your gp as a pp has said.

Also, for you so you don't become ill, can you and your partner alternate nights where she sleeps in with you and the other gets a full nights sleep in her bed or a spare room if you have one?

Some night lights really disturb sleep. I'd turn it off.

Does she snore or breath through her mouth? Just wondering if she has sleep apnoea and may not sleep properly so it’s restless.

Bribery. At that age mine would have done anything for a prize. So first night she stays in her room = prize, then three nights = bigger prize, etc.

Looking at 3 week old DS snoozing on my boob before we go to bed (co sleeping) thinking "don't get any ideas"

I have no advice as I don’t have children but I was like this as a child and I really feel for your daughter and you.

It’s a problem that’s persisted my whole life. I don’t know if my mum didn’t have access to resources (back in the early 80’s) or there wasn’t so much knowledge around sleep (or lack of) back then. But it used to take me hours and hours to fall asleep. Sometimes I would have to get my mum to stroke my eyebrow until I dropped off. I had severe eczema and was given a medicine that helped me stop itching and also had a sedative effect so I got to sleep when I had that.

As I got older, the only way I could get to sleep was by playing music on a personal stereo. When I got to my teenage years, I could naturally stay up for days on end before crashing out eventually. I do not know how I made it through high school. This pattern persisted until it caused chaos in my life, I had to ditch college numerous times, I lost jobs due to attendance (eventually falling asleep so exhausted that I would sleep through alarms) and eventually I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I’ve also been diagnosed with a sleep disorder (we can’t be sure which one came first but as PP have said sleep is integral to functioning and my lack of sleep pattern has disrupted my “normal” functioning). I now can’t get to sleep unless I take a sleeping tablet every night. Even then sometimes it doesn’t work. Like last week, my sleep gradually got worse and worse until I was up for 27 hours before getting to sleep.

I have no advice but I would listen to PP who have experience of this with their DC, try all the methods, get the sleep consultant, I wish my mum had done this, I might have been a better functioning human if she had. Good luck

You have my sympathy OP. I had one like this. We caved into the sleep deprivation and bought a Super King bed. Despite starting off in own bed, 3am every night saw my child crawling in with us. Eventually this stopped waking us up and we just slept through and then one morning we woke up to just the two of us and the co-sleeping had stopped of it's own accord. I guess it's just age related but like others have suggested, it's more natural to sleep as a group (evolutionarily the safer option).

I also suspect it's an early sign of anxiety so would be worth keeping an eye on.

Do you sit right next to her as she falls asleep? If you do I would take the slow approach and gradually night by night sit a bit further away, starting at an arm left so you can still give her a comforting hand hold if needed and only ever return to that position. Don't talk to her just be there so she can see you. Eventually it will be on the sofa, then out of sight but so you can tell her you are there and finally in your own bed. It will hopefully help her to get used to waking and nodding back off ok on her own.

Frequent waking/waking early can be due to overtiredness. Have you tried earlier bedtime? Sleep consultant would possibly just suggest simple supernanny approach which is supposedly effective if you feel able to consistently follow through with xx

have you tried (stupid question really, as you probably have tried everything) going for a short walk after dinner followed by warm bath and melatonin rich drink (the classic warm milk&honey or chamomile tea& honey) and calm story.

Thanks for the comments everyone. It feels like we've tried everything really but just recently we have started giving both kids 30p in pennies and every time they're properly naughty they lose one. It's working a. It with daytime fighting so I figured it might help at night time too?

She's just gone down in her bed with her night light on (it is a red one) and I also put her up some faint fairy lights because she said it was too dark and she didn't like it. She's never liked the dark, even when in with us we have to have a light on so I can't turn them off.

She's been told that she needs to sleep in her own bed now because she's nearly 4 and a big girl which she seemed to accept. I also said if she gets out of bed before falling asleep she will lose a penny and she didn't like that idea!

She's currently laid in her bed but not crying. I am sat in my own room.

Oh, I forgot to say. Our rooms aren't big enough to put a double bed in her room or to permanently have an extra bed in our room. We had a camp bed up for a bit but honestly our room is so small there was no floor space, we had to climb over things to get into bed

Sympathy OP, my 4 year old won’t sleep alone.

I actually don’t think it’s that uncommon as lots of parents have confided in me that they sleep part of or all the night with their 4 year olds.

I have a chair bed under our bed and pull it out when we have nighttime visitors. Avoids starfishing bed buddies and somehow mine sleep better when they're in the room with us.

It isn't needed every night thankfully but you have my sympathy! Mine are 4 & 6 and we have one of them in once or twice a week usually. It's totally our own fault. Too soft and tired at night to be firm. Works for us though (most of the time).

Sleeping in your room is not a solution, it’s another rod for your back. Cue a thread “our 7 yr old will only sleep in our room”. It’s time to explain the changes and cut the habit, the screaming and crying is her objecting to change, if you give in nothing will change. Yes you will have some horrendous nights but consistency is key

Not read the entire thread but we had recent struggles with our toddler who suddenly decided that he couldnt sleep unless we were there and us being in his room or him in ours was only solution to allow us to function and work.

Is her room large enough for a camp bed as well as her toddler bed? Could one of you sleep like that so she knows you are there but you are in seperate bed so both have own space in short term?

We are very lucky to have children's rooms large enough for double beds and put them in as soon as out of cot so we could sleep with them when unsettled and not the reverse. Its helped a lot for us and means they never ask to come into our bed

It’s obviously biologically normal for children not long out of infancy to want to sleep near their parents.
The LO who slept in with us moved out at 5 when she was desperate for her own room. We never hear a peep from her now and she goes to sleep with a cuddle and lights out. She needed us until she didn’t.
All this talk of OP’s daughter screaming to get her own way is bloody horrible. She’s a tiny girl and for whatever reason probably wants to be close to her parents. It is a pain in the arse but it doesn’t last forever.

A lot of people are assuming that the little one will sleep better in with the parents or even Co sleep, wake, be soothed by the presence of their parents and nod back off without disturbing anyone else. Maybe true 9 times out of 10 but not for that last one, which was my daughter! We tried cosleeping and room sharing in a couple of forms, nope, she would be up and down in bed like a gopher.

We also didn't find the silent rapid return advocated by likes of super nanny any good. They get up, you take them back. They get wound up, you take them back. They get more wound up, you take them back. But eventually you're using your hands to take them back. You're picking them up under the arm pits. They're properly kicking off. This technique makes things physical. That doesn't always go well! After 2 or even 3 hours, it's too easy to snap, to shout at them, to block the door. Not forgetting parents are already sleep deprived and maybe low on patience. And you're expecting what, the child to suddenly lie down and go to sleep?! It didn't work for us. I didn't like where it was leading us.

Like I said up thread, bedtime tokens was what worked for us in the end. More of a psychological tactic.

Good job tonight op sending luck.

Some suggestions that worked surprisingly well for us.
Start bedtime routine earlier so it can go on longer. Bath, then downstairs for snack and milk and a bit of tv cuddling a parent, then up for teeth and stories. After stories, leave them in their room and go downstairs.
Allow them three visits downstairs before they go to sleep. So they can still get some reassurance without going up and down a million times.
Have a reward in the morning of the nighttime was good. We got some sugar free small sweets that DD could have after tea.
The three things above worked surprisingly well to encourage DD to go to sleep alone.

Oh OP, you're not alone. Our DD is 8. She's unable to fall asleep on her own and has only slept through the night around 5 times in nearly 9 years. She comes through to us every night. We're usually asleep so don't always notice. It's torture. I have little to no patience and am constantly snapping. She's prescribed Melatonin which doesn't really help. Following this thread with interest.