To just want a full nights sleep?

[TheUnwindingCableCar]

Our daughter turns 4 later this month and she has only ever slept through the night once (maybe twice) since she was born

Does anyone have any tips?

She has her own room with a bed she chose with a tent over it and all her teddies and comforts.

She has a night lights left on.

She just won't stay asleep for longer than 3-4 hours without waking. And that's if we're lucky. Often she wakes every hour until 2am

If we let her sleep in our bed or on a put up bed in our room she will sleep slightly better but not much and she can't sleep in our bed permanently because it's giving me really bad backache sharing with a starfishing 4 year old.

I thought starting nursery would help tire her out but it hasn't made any difference. Neither does trying to tire her out on walks or letting her go to bed later.

I just want to sleep

my eldest slept through the night from 6 weeks but from age 5 would come in with me and go straight back to sleep, my second didn't sleep through the night until he was 7, my third started off ok but at about 4 stopped sleeping through (he's 12 now).

I found that co-sleeping worked best, for me, it didn't matter that they were in my bed, they all eventually moved out of their own accord and now sleep happily in their beds, on their own.

We have an enormous bed which helps with the logistics. For me (as I was working full time with all three) getting some decent sleep was the key.

My view is do whatever works for you, Try not to worry. Prioritise who needs to sleep most - the distressed child, the earning adult etc. I had to be rested enough to go to work, they had to be rested enough to enjoy their day and feel secure when the next night came around.

Don't sweat it, I think there's too much importance placed on children sleeping independently. Why should they? We don't if we have a partner. Why should we have the comfort of sharing a bed and not a little person? I know this is not a popular view but it makes sense to me.

Honestly, I would do what you normally do as she will be tired and confused.

I would start tomorrow. I would chat with her lots tomorrow to explain what will happen tomorrow night.

@AliceWhiteRabbit

Honestly, I would do what you normally do as she will be tired and confused.

I would start tomorrow. I would chat with her lots tomorrow to explain what will happen tomorrow night.

Yes I agree. Do whatever you normally do this evening.

Tomorrow, I'd be explaining that she's getting older and is a big girl now so it's time she stayed in bed. If she needs you, she can call you for help but once sorted, she needs to stay in bed and be quiet. If she can't sleep them she needs to rest quietly. Personally I don't think she's too young to know that mummy needs to sleep too.

If all else fails then bribe her with a reward chart

I agree with PP, don’t start something new tonight without a specific plan. She needs prepared for what will happen, and you need a plan you are comfortable with that you can stick to. I’d recommend books/Instagram videos by a sleep consultant called Lucy Wolfe. Her advice was great for us when our second was 9/10m, but there are sections talking about issues for older kids. It’s all basically a gradual withdrawal method though. It’s very hard to contemplate a plan when you are exhausted like you must be, but a bit of research and preparation will pay off. I’m sorry, I say a bit of research - you’ve probably read everything there is to read about sleep by now! But I loved Lucy’s book for the clear plan that it offered, gave me something to cling to when I was finding it hard.

She's awake already

Hi OP

She has got into the habit of needing you to fall asleep. It's nice and comforting to have you there and she is used to it. She wont stay asleep in the night until she is used to being in bed by herself and going to sleep at night alone. She wont stop waking up, its natural for everyone to wake up multiple times a night, but at the moment she is freaking out because she is used to you being there. Once she can fall asleep at bedtimw by herself then she will be able to get herself back to sleep in the night as well.
Firstly can you take turns with a partner or something so you're only doing every other bedtime or night waking?
It is a habit and she is getting her own way (intentionally or not) by tantrumming. I'd deal with it how you would deal with any other habit you need to break or a tantrum. Either cold Turkey, bribery, star charts, or gradual changes such as popping out of her room every 5 min at bed time to do a quick job and then gradually leave her alone for longer and longer periods.

OP I'm just posting in solidarity. DS is 4 and sounds entirely like your DD. Everyone said it would change when he started school, but it hasn't. I've tried supernanny, record was 42 times putting him back in his bed while screaming and generally telling me he doesn't like me anymore etc. I don't know what the answer is either

Agree that helping her to fall asleep alone in the evening may help with night-time, and if it doesn't then if you see GP/health visitor in future about the issues they won't suggest that.

When my dd was 3 I used to lye on her floor until she was asleep. To progress to her going to sleep alone, I did a combination of the kissing game, the sleep fairy would visit if she did good going to sleep (I worked out she was motivated by money, and the threshold for getting money changed over time, the sleep fairy wrote letters saying so), and saying I had jobs to do and would come back (started leaving for 30seconds multiple times and staying in for a long period between each time I left, gradually reduced the gaps between when I left and increased the time I was out for). It took about 3-4weeks before she was falling asleep alone consistently.

Re nighttimes could she draw a picture of how she feels when she wakes in the night to try and provoke some discussion? E.g if it turns out she is scared of monsters or something, put in a solution (my dd has 2 teddies that sit by her bed to look out for and protect her from the monsters each night.

Sending hugs to you

My eldest didn’t reliably start sleeping through until she was six. Some kids just wake up more 🤷🏼‍♀️ My other two were much better

No advice but place marking, I know you don't want to hear it but dd 6 is exactly the same, I am lying with her for hours each night. Was just thinking I can't go on like this. It never seams to get any easier.

Might be worth contacting this charity

www.thechildrenssleepcharity.org.uk/

We had a lot of success increasing the amount of magnesium in the diet of DC2 (well for all of us actually). We get her to snack on magnesium rich foods during the day and she has a multivitamin before she brushes her teeth at night.

Went from 3 -4 wake ups a night every night to perhaps 1-2 wake ups a week.

I have sympathy - my very clingy (now 7 year old ) didn't sleep through until she was 4.
Woke multiple times etc
The only thing that worked was getting her to go to sleep by herself and then she woke less often.
We did the kiss kiss routine which was kind.
Put child in bed - after stories - kiss goodnight
Come back in 1 minute - if in bed - kiss and leave
2 minutes and then 4 minutes and then 8 and then keep going until they fall asleep. It really worked but you need to do it for at least a week to set in

Have you tried some white noise in the background for her?
Is it too dark? I know you said she has night lights.
There is a lovely projector which projects stats etc and fills the whole room.

Stats? I meant stars

Genius, projecting stats! That really would cause instant sleep.

Re the falling asleep on her own, my grandson stays with us once a week and went through a phase of being upset about actually falling asleep and then it became a 'thing'. We worked out that if we left his bedroom door open with the hall light on and one of us kept busy tidying up and generally making some noise in another room, then he was quite content listening to us and dropped off to sleep without thinking about it. Good luck.

It makes me so sad the amount of people who just say she needs to learn to fall asleep by herself.

As adults most (not all!) of us prefer sharing beds with our partners. Why are children expected to sleep alone when adults don't like to.

Can you get a double bed in her room then when she wakes you get in with her so you've got more space?

Recommend reading Sarah Ockwell Smith's Gentle sleep book.

She will get there in her own time. It's probably more common than you realise to not be sleeping through at her age

Can you put her mattress or a cot bed right next to yours so you can reach across and hold her hand or cuddle her without having to trail about the house? No more star-fishing that way either.
So many of these suggestions sound exhausting. Mine had night terrors. She slept next to me in her own bed. Gradually she became more secure knowing I was there upon waking and she’s fine and in her own room now. I know it’s a pain in the arse but she’s so little and she must be scared. I found a lot of outdoor play helped too.

Drugs. For you or her - or both.
(Lighthearted, before anyone comes back at me.)
Seriously. You have my sympathies. Watching/following with interest for tips.

May sound mad but try a cranial osteopath. I was like your DD as a child. My poor mum didn’t get a full nights sleep until I was 8, I used to wake hourly and would always go into her bed and even then would still wake up. Eventually she took me to a cranial osteopath who poked at me a bit and my skull made quite an odd noise (not painful though!) and she said there was a lot of pressure inside my head. No idea if there’s any scientific evidence behind that or what was going on really. But on the way home I fell asleep in the car straight away, then that night I slept through for the first time ever. From then on I could sleep 10 hours straight no problems. Like I said no idea how or why it worked but it did. Worst case scenario is that you’re £60 down, worth a try?

Try this.

Bedtime passes
Applies equally at bedtime and for night wakings. Start with a family meeting, draw up some sleep rules, get your child to suggest and draw them to give them some ownership. Stick them up on the wall / read them together at bedtime. Then make loads of tokens together. I mean loads. If the child gets up or calls you in then that's absolutely fine and allowed, but costs 1 token. If there are tokens left unspent in the morning, the child gets a reward.

We used playmobil, I bought a camping set and split it all up, put the names of all the bits in a pot and Dd got a new piece at random every morning she had tokens left. Penny sweets would also work, you need instant gratification.

For first few nights the child needs to succeed so you need more tokens than they will use, so you're setting them up to succeed. Put them in a pot by their bed. My Dd used more than 30 the first night. Then when they're in the swing of it, start to gradually reduce the number of tokens.

My daughter used 32 tokens the first night. It took us a few weeks to get down to 6. Dd started to fail a few times and had to try. We got stuck at this level a while. Eventually we got down to 3 and at some point the system was gradually forgotten. 30+ down to 1 or 2 was a lot bloody better.

We actually used a sleep consultant and she came up with this approach.

Ps. Please don’t do supernanny style of returning her to bed 372 times, there’s every chance this could make her more fearful and upset about bedtime in general. Also sounds exhausting.

Do you have space for a cot mattress on the floor in your bedroom? My sister used to have a cot mattress at the foot of her and DBILs bed so that when her eldest would wake in the night, he could come into them but wouldn't wake them.
Is she generally anxious?

No idea. I have a teenager who has slept solidly 10 hours plus a night since he was a baby and I also have a primary schooler who still won't sleep through the night at nearly 5! 😂 Not a clue why they are so different!