To sell the house and drastically change our lives

[julyjulyjuly]

I’m in my 30s, married with one DC and live on the outskirts of London. DH and I are both self employed and whilst the year started off well, the lockdowns have been awful financially and have also taken a massive toll mentally on both of us.

We have a big mortgage (£1500 a month) which was doable before, but with things looking so much less certain due to Covid, we’d now like to hugely reduce our outgoings.

We’ve always wanted to live in the countryside and we’ve found a place we really like the look of. It’s a long way from London and is in bad condition inside - it would need a new kitchen and bathroom straightaway and all the other rooms need completely redecorating (paintwork, fixtures and floors). The garden is an overgrown mess.

DH and I have never done any painting, decorating or floor sanding in our lives and don’t know anything about that sort of stuff. But it’s always been a dream to take on a rural project like this, do as much of the work as possible by ourselves and create an amazing family home.

We could afford a “finished” house in the location where we want to live on our budget, but it would be two bedrooms as opposed to four, with one reception room compared to three. I’ve always wanted the big rambling house so we can have family to stay at Christmas and friends during the year. Obviously that wouldn’t be possible with a two bedroom cottage, but if we bought the house that needs work then we’d have that.

The major issue is the finances - whilst our mortgage would be reduced to around £600 per month (that’s the cost of the house plus £50k to do it up), we worry that moving hundreds of miles away from London is a risky move career-wise. In our current state we can work from anywhere, but what if our freelance work dries up and we need to get full time jobs again? This is something that would be much easier to do near London than the far flung but beautiful corner we want to move to.

I know I’ve probably answered my own question here, but is it too risky to take this step and rely on getting freelance work in the future to pay our bills? Is there any way at all we can make this work or is it a total pipe dream?

I just feel completely and utterly drained by this year, am craving a massive lifestyle change and feel like this is a now or never moment.

WWYD?

You've got one child right now. Why not find a smaller house in a similar condition in your ideal location, do it up and in the process learn about how you do up a house, then decide if you want a bigger house?

@julyjulyjuly

This isn’t the house we’re looking at, but it’s similar in terms of the state of rooms, just to give you an idea. Hopefully the photo will attach...

OP, that photo gives me the complete and utter thrills. I love, love, love renovations (despite not having finished my own, I'm still ridiculously vicariously excited by the prospect even of someone else's).

However... I have never borrowed money to renovate. It has always come out of income, or out of the proceeds of having sold another renovation. I would be very wary of borrowing in this situation, especially at the moment, when nobody really knows what's going to happen with jobs, redundancies etc.

Also: there's a difference between how you imagine life to be, and how it actually is. Your dream life of family and friends coming to stay may come to pass - but it may not. What you will perhaps find if you move away from London is that your friends say all sorts of things about coming to stay, but then real life (school , their own families, DC's clubs, parties etc) intervene, and they don't in practice come to stay that much. My experience of having lived in a few cities is that two or three friendships really stick, come what may; the rest are people who are absolutely lovely, but the friendships are based on you all being in the same place at the same time, with children of the same age.

A further thought from me. I didn't get a survey done on my current house, because I knew it would say I shouldn't buy it, and I needed to buy something. However, that's easier to do when you haven't got a mortgage (you can buy wtf you like, then). So I took on the chin, at the outset, a house that was going to be absolutely riddled with expensive problems, and just decided that some needed solving sooner than others (standing water on the kitchen floor, for example).

It was easier to do this as the DC are older, though. The projects XH and I took on when the DC were younger were more cosmetic/structural (i.e they didn't need re-roofing or re-wiring). They did involve knocking down walls, taking the back off the house, spending time without any downstairs floors, etc. But they were habitable with young children, which my current house wouldn't have been.

However much you think you’re going to need to spend on it, be aware that you will need at least double that figure. That is the truth of it, and it’s important to go into it fully aware of that.

I still say go for it!

We’ve just had an offer accepted on a big period renovation project which sounds very similar in terms of size - it had however been very well cared for while the previous owner was still alive. That said, it needs total rewire, damp works, windows restoring, boiler moving and replacing, two bathrooms, kitchen/diner knock through, and more besides.... we are allowing/hoping for £100k, but have £200k. Our previous project property we hoped for £75k, ended up at £110k - and that one had had a lot of updating done already. The windows alone could be £15k just for restoration and a few replacements, and bam, a third of your budget is gone. £5k for a rewire, £4k for plumbing stuff (basics...) - that’s half. Haven’t even mentioned roof, damp works, plastering, kitchens, bathrooms.... it all adds up. It’s a nice idea in theory, but you need to go in to it with your eyes open (and a lot more ready cash 😬)

Sounds fun but it will cost you a lot more than you think and if its an old house it will continue to cost you. £50k is not very much if there is lots to be done. You need to consider are you happy to live in a run down house / building site for quite a long time whilst you do things slowly.

Think carefully about the work situation - that sounds the most concerning.

Something like this maybe!

OMG, my eyes!

@TheABC

I have just seen your update and the picture. Don't do this unless you can

a) push the price down, hard. It's going to be a lot more than 50K's worth of work.

b) You have somewhere else you can stay temporarily free of charge, whilst the kitchen and bathroom get done. You will have to completely gut that room and get it refitted.

Or buy a two-ring camping stove for cooking, and pee and poo in a bucket (line the bucket with a plastic bag for a poo, then bin it).

I'm afraid this is all too true.

It’s not just the cost of doing the house up, living remotely is expensive, you would probably need to run 2 cars, heating a house of that size will be expensive compared to where you live currently. I expect your monthly outgoings would far exceed what you are spending now, the mortgage is not the only thing to consider.

I think the question for me would be - do you have the money outright to get the kitchen and bathroom done literally as soon as you have keys?

We’d have £50k cash (assuming the bank will lend), so I hope that would be doable yes.

Why not find a smaller house in a similar condition in your ideal location, do it up and in the process learn about how you do up a house, then decide if you want a bigger house?

That would probably be sensible. But I love the romance of buying the special, beautiful forever house and restoring it to its former glory! I don’t want to live in another house where I know I’ll be moving on again in 5 or 10 years - I want to settle. Plus moving is so expensive.

@julyjulyjuly

Do it....there are jobs in the countryside, you can live rurally and be close to London transport links.

The thing is, the place where we really want to live is several hundred miles from London and absolutely not commutable!

Are your current careers completely linked to London? If you are moving several hundred miles away from the capital there should sto be reasonable large towns nearby... So probably more job opportunities than you think

I’d do it :) life is short. Wishing you the best of luck.

Reading all the replies, my head says it’s far too much of a risk and could very easily go horribly wrong. I’m just so, so tired of city living, the pollution and living like sardines. And our current place is tiny - I want a romantic and rambling place where we can truly spread out!

@Digestive28

Renovating is hard work and always takes more cash then you think. Why not use some time in next few weeks to re-decorate a room in current house and see what that’s like. It seems like a big jump from current life and need to find a way to test the water with it all.

This in spades.

Getting tradespeople in rural locations is not always easy or possible. We have the nice big detached house in a rural location. It’s in the middle of nowhere and love it, but it’s been a lot of hard work and DH is handy and can fit a kitchen, bathroom, skirting boards, move a wall etc and I assist to some degree or other, whether it’s making cement, bricking up outside walls, painting or laying a stone hearth as he hurt his leg and couldn’t bend.

It’s a pain getting DIY materials so you have to be really organised and have spares which seem to go up in price every week. We are both knackered as we work during the week and DIY at weekends and even when you want a trades person, you can’t get one or they let you down.

Being so far from home means you won’t have friends or family that can easily help you out and you will want to go out and make friends but will be half way through a project and need to get it done.

Before you buy a project you either need to have a builder you trust not to let you down or have a go at renovating your current place, yes there are you tube guides but sometimes people suck at things. I have many skills but cutting in is beyond me. Also if you get a builder they are so expensive, they quoted £450 plus VAT to fit the three stones I bought for my hearth. We had all the materials but we’re getting a quote for an extension and I thought I would ask. I did it in about 4 hours and I have never done it before.

Are your current careers completely linked to London?

At the moment we can both do our careers from anywhere. But our worry is that if our freelance work dries up, we may need to get back in the rat race and find jobs in central London again. I wonder though, will companies still expect people to commute into offices once the pandemic situation is over? Who knows!

I think the dream is the big house with loads of room to spread out and plenty of space for family to stay, plus the stunning rural location. I also love the thought of a big practical project and returning a beautiful house to its former glory, though maybe I’m being

So does every Tom Dick and Harry at the moment. House prices for the kind of place you are talking a about have gone through the roof.

I'd do it, knowing I'm handy. Buy sawhorses, planks to fashion a work table with them, a good-sized bin, a heavy extension cord, good tools, a level, a power miter saw (you'll thank me!), and a shop vac.

Start with the kitchen, strip everything to the studs and joists, pull new wiring, put down nice tiling, put up drywall, put in lower and upper cabinets. Use an electrician and plumber if needed, but minimize that cost by doing everything you can yourselves.

Bath next, then bedrooms!

You'll get there! Make sure you and your DP stay connected; take days off if needed!

July July July....is an air commute possible...obviously not in covid times....but loads do it....

Another thing to think about, July, is that you won't know any of the tradesmen, and won't have a network of people to ask - so be prepared for some expensive mistakes! (I made them with the house I live in now).

By the way, decorating, painting, sanding etc are very, very easy to do well, even if you have no experience. When I painted my first house from top to bottom, I had never done it before. Just don't cut corners, and don't be slapdash. I'm slapdash in life generally, but am absolutely meticulous about anything to do with decorating.

You will also find that you can learn a lot from watching tradesmen. Really good tradesmen aren't just skilled at their particular jobs: they are also very, very intelligent. You will learn an awful lot if you are bright and listen to them.

I do wonder, a bit, about how you are going to find the time to work and be involved in a renovation. I was not in the slightest bit hands-on when the DC were small (though learnt an awful lot passively from XH, who had once been in the trade, and applied it once I left him and moved into my own renovation project).

You are young and my advice is to follow your dream, but only if you can put up with living with some things as they are until you have enough cash, and only then if you think you'd enjoy planning and doing DIY. As others have said, it's likely to cost a lot more than your 50k. DH and I have done a couple of big renovations. much of it ourselves. It is messier, more expensive and takes longer than you would imagine, but gives lots of satisfaction in the end. Good luck, and consider the 60k-more-but already done up one as an alternative.

The broadband thing is also a really important point. It's horrendous in my rural hamlet.

Have you costed up how much you reckon it would take to make it ‘fine to sell’ and then how much it would take to make it ‘how you want it’? Also, have you checked ceilings in the road etc?

We are renovating our house - slowly - and have to be really careful not to spend more than we’d make if we sold.... and that’s from somebody who never wants to move. Projects are money pits, there’s always something that’s extra that throws the budget out!

I must be a bit odd but looking at the photo you posted, you could manage with the kitchen like that if you don't mind roughing it. I live on a sailboat 6 m of the year and you'd be surprised how little you really need.

Would you be prepared to change career or are there opportunities to do different jobs if need be.
If you do go for it I’d price up the work with a professional first, make sure that £50k is going to cover it.

Hmm, we did up some of our 3 bed semi and it was a lot more work than I expected and really stressful. But, it could be the making of you. I think it's good to take risks in life...but what is the fall back? How easily could you move again if you needed to. I would risk some money and stress for the potential benefits, but not if the fall back would basically be you getting left destitute.

I'm over-invested here, but @Dashel makes lots of good points.

I can cut in as well as any decorator, for instance, but I couldn't plaster a wall to save my life. I have just asked an electrician to do something which I wasn't 100 per cent sure about (and you need to be 100 per cent sure about electricity), but have done lots of other electrical work, very slowly but perfectly efficiently, with the help of You Tube.

I will also say, @julyjulyjuly, that a monster, never-ending renovation project contributed to the break up of my marriage. It was supposed to be our sprawling, lovely, everyone-come-to-stay home. It wasn't the reason why we split up, but it became entwined in everything else.

Broadband is actually very good, so that’s one less thing to worry about.

Does anyone know why the pipes from the radiators would all be external and not plastered in? Would that be because radiators were added later, and they didn’t put the pipes in the walls to save money?

are there opportunities to do different jobs if need be

I think jobs locally would be very hard to come by.