To think the vaccine shouldn't be given out by age criteria?

[studychick81]

I know the data says that the majority of people who get the virus and are most seriously ill or die are the elderly, over 82. But I was quite surprised by the potential order of giving out the vaccine.

1. people in care homes and care home workers- fair enough.

2. over 80s and health care workers.

3. age order oldest- youngest.

4. I don't agree with this. Surely all health care workers should get it before all people over 80? Shouldn't those 50 plus who have underlining issues which means catching it could be deadly get it over a normally healthy over 80 year old?

5. should kids who live with vulnerable adults/grand parents get it before a fit and healthy 40 year old?

6. should teachers, education workers get it before a fit 40 year old?

@BoomBoomsCousin

I think the priority order depends a little on how quickly they think they can work their way through the population.

If it is going to be a matter of a few months then going for a logistically easy priority list makes more sense. Less chance of missing people, easy for the vaccination to be given out by all sorts of sites, not just through GPs and clinics. Easy for the public to understand who can get it. etc. without over running service provision and being a focus of ire for many people's inability to get it immediately.

If it's going to take a couple of years then it makes more sense to focus on the clinically vulnerable and those most likely to give it to the clinically vulnerable and move through the population in order of likelihood of bad outcomes.

Really good point. Remember all the threads back in March by people complaining that they think they should be on the shielding list for all sorts of spurious reasons? They need to have a defined list that people can’t argue against (eg age / shielding list / flu vaccine list etc).

I guess when we start having lots of dead teachers then their priority will go up. Unlike health staff whose deaths the media reported I haven't seen the same for teachers. Perhaps their viral load is small or perhaps it's just not getting reported?

Just got a new job in a hospital, I worked in a school before, I wouldn't have expected it in the school but here I know it'll be relatively early on. But I'm going to sound like a paranoid ninny now, I am FIRMLY in the camp that has vaccinated my children, I'm vaccinated myself. But I'm slightly paranoid what long term effects could be, I know it's very easy to look and think we'll no one has died from it, no one has had any seizures brought on by it, but we at one point thought working with asbestos was safe enough. Thalidomide was also considered safe for mother's and wasn't. I just would rather wait a little bit and then get vaccinated, which I know a lot of people will have an issue with, but hey it means they can have mine I guess 😅

This is going to sound harsh, it's not my opinion about who deserves it but about other factors in distributing the vaccine.

The government knows roughly how many people are in care homes, it's going to be a smaller group than the general population. The impact is going to be huge, people will be able to visit parents and grandparents again. Imagine you have not been able to see a parent since March and that parent has dementia so can't understand why you have not visited.

Care home residents are also not mobile, if the vaccine does cause someone to be contagious then it (virus) can be isolated easily.

It's much harder to estimate the number of teachers. Do you include teachers in FE or just schools? What about assessors in the workplace? Nursery staff. What about supply teachers? What about people who teach outside school? People running dance classes? Tutors?

Seems everyone, not surprisingly, wants the vaccine order to be different depending on their own circumstances. It will be set out according to what will make the biggest impact, taking into account the specific vaccine and who it works for. If that means over 80s get vaccinated before CEV then that’s what it will be.

There were several teachers and students who died in the states already, they absolutely do need it especially they can't protect themselves when children sneeze on them

I thought everyone on Mumsnet was saying no to it if offered anyway

@justanotherneighinparadise

I thought everyone on Mumsnet was saying no to it if offered anyway

Except for teachers

One main priority isn't going to be protecting the individual but protecting the Heath service, not blocking wards or beds with sick Covid people, allowing normal services, eg cancer care to carry on as usual so it makes sense to vaccinate the people who get sickest and stay sickest in hospitals for longer

Perhaps when the first few rounds are given they would be able to start vaccinating in hotspots and protecting the teachers/delivery drivers etc that way rather than trying to asses case by case who most needs the next round

When you take out all the covid deniers and those who’ve refused to adhere to guidance that also should significantly reduce demand.

Feels like a very positive step. Christmas is saved

NHS and Carehome staff are not high up the list due to benefit to ourselves. It is because we are significantly more likely to infect the vulnerable. Toward the end of the last wave I believe the majority of infections were hospital acquired. Plus it is easy to calculate the numbers and you can do a whole workplace fairly efficiently. So highly beneficial plus efficient = high priority.

The list is decided on what is most beneficial and efficient for society as a whole to halt the spread and protect lives. So they look at groups not individuals.

Deciding a list based on which individual needs it most would be complicated and inefficient and everyone would end up waiting far longer.

Care home residents are also not mobile, if the vaccine does cause someone to be contagious then it (virus) can be isolated easily.
What about residents with dementia who are not frail aged?

I’m glad the elderly will be getting it first

I don’t think all health care workers are at high risk.

We both work in the NHS, but neither of our jobs would put us at THAT HIGH risk. Personally I’d say that teachers are at more risk than us.

I think the list is fine - presumably once those people have had the vaccine the next priority will be frontline workers (teachers, police, shop staff etc). Or at least it should be!

@Nanny0gg

Well, let me see.

It has been trialled and tested as much as the time allows.

This pandemic is a huge threat to the socioeconomic stability of our world.

I’ve personally not seen any relatives since February. It’s breaking me.

So yeah. I’m taking it at the first opportunity. If it’s available privately I’d even be happy to stump up a few hundred quid to get it early.

My cynical self says the elderly will get it first to see if there’s any adverse reactions on a portion of society that are seen to be expendable. Then you Jekyll work their way down to kids.

*they’ll

I'm not sure I agree with the criteria at all. Or disagree with most other peoples listings!
Why should the over 80's be the first choice?
Cev and medical staff. Should be too, for me. Why are care home residents so high on the list.

Clearly we all have different reasons and criteria.

PyongyangKipperbang
MN has a high percentage of teachers, and they are all crying out to be first in line. What a surprise.

The bullshit is at unprecedented levels.

@justanotherneighinparadise

I thought everyone on Mumsnet was saying no to it if offered anyway

I thought nobody believed in Covid anyway? And the govt was wanting to lock us up while the change the batteries in the pigeons? And now it's an unedifying scramble to the top. It's a bit like that bit in Deep Impact when that woman from ER does the deathstare on everyone getting the longer straw than her. The "vulnerable should stay at home while we get on with our lives" posters are sure going to need their blood pressure pills upping when they see that being able to get on with their lives in the first place means they don't get first dibs.

no children have been part of the trials.

I could be wrong but I think there are no plans to vaccinate children as no children have been included in any of the trials so it couldn't ethically be done.

That isn't true - the Oxford Vaccine has had all age groups including children in trials since April, and Pfizer have just started trials on over 12s

I am hoping that medically vulnerable children will be eligible. It also seems sensible to partially base it on the well established flu vaccine programme.

I would imagine a big deciding factor in who gets it first is what groups are the ones currently in hospital with it (and those working in the hospitals), the government will want to try to tackle that so the hospitals have capacity to start returning to the usual treatment and care they provide.

@PaddyF0dder

I don’t think all health care workers are at high risk.

We both work in the NHS, but neither of our jobs would put us at THAT HIGH risk. Personally I’d say that teachers are at more risk than us.

It isn’t about you being at high risk.

It’s about you being a vector for infecting the vulnerable people you are looking after. While frontline care workers obviously bear the brunt of this, back office staff (and health workers‘ families) also increase the risk to patients because they increase the risk to frontline staff(even if frontline staff are vaccinated, vaccines aren’t 100%).

My MIL is 93 and has carers coming in to her home twice a day. I’m not sure why she isn’t as at risk as a person living in a care home.