To think the vaccine shouldn't be given out by age criteria?

[studychick81]

I know the data says that the majority of people who get the virus and are most seriously ill or die are the elderly, over 82. But I was quite surprised by the potential order of giving out the vaccine.

1. people in care homes and care home workers- fair enough.

2. over 80s and health care workers.

3. age order oldest- youngest.

4. I don't agree with this. Surely all health care workers should get it before all people over 80? Shouldn't those 50 plus who have underlining issues which means catching it could be deadly get it over a normally healthy over 80 year old?

5. should kids who live with vulnerable adults/grand parents get it before a fit and healthy 40 year old?

6. should teachers, education workers get it before a fit 40 year old?

@Stinkywizzleteets

I think health workers first yes.

But as a clinically vulnerable person I’m
Really worried being way down the list. I’m already stuck at home in fear of kids and oh bringing it home to me. OH will be one of the first to get it because of his job. I’ve been shielding since March. Rarely leave the house. Thoroughly miserable & terrified of it killing me. Prekids I wouldn’t have bothered about it but now I worry about leaving them behind. I’m productive in society or was prelockdown and contributed to the economy now I’m a waster stuck at home. My fit and healthy father will get it before me because of his age and that upsets me. My illness causing me to be vulnerable will cut my life short and I’m so upset that my kids memories will be of us all pissing each other off in a too small house during a wet and cold lockdown instead of long walks, and meals with friends or holidays in the sun. Yes it’s selfish, I get that. I don’t think I care any more.

I don't think you're being selfish and this is exactly my point in the OP. Age first past a certain age doesn't make sense. It should be CV and CEV before a healthy 70 yo.

In the link someone posted earlier it says it is done on age due to numbers of deaths but does then go on to say it's because this is the easiest way to administer it on mass and they think the best way of getting the highest uptake. So not completely motivated by health. I think they would have a very high take up for CEV and CV if they did those before healthy 70 +.

Plenty of consultants advised we continue to shield when it was “officially paused” though. That the risk if we caught it was no less, there was just slightly less risk of catching it

Yes, lots of us were individually reassessed over the summer (including all DC) and some were kept on stricter rules (eg those having bone marrow transplants). But even if you didn't get the full pause, the exercise easement was pretty universal

So not completely motivated by health. I think they would have a very high take up for CEV

It would be pretty straightforward to do the CEV, as we are all officially known. Most have regular hospital appointments, and there could be a rolling programme that they get a chitty from their consultant attesting to need and safety, and can then rock up at the hospital jabbing site, flash chatty and shield letter, and get done there whilst NHS staff are being done.

The World ~ Delighted by the light at the end of the tunnel

Mumsnet ~ Which bastards have got the priority list wrong

@butterpuffed

The World ~ Delighted by the light at the end of the tunnel

Mumsnet ~ Which bastards have got the priority list wrong

@butterpuffed

The World ~ Delighted by the light at the end of the tunnel

Mumsnet ~ Which bastards have got the priority list wrong

Just saw this on fb (I haven’t read it yet)
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/covid-vaccine_uk_5faaa359c5b64c88d4050c6c

Well, I am over 65 and will definitely be taking up the vaccine offer when it is my turn. Can't wait!

@butterpuffed

The World ~ Delighted by the light at the end of the tunnel

Mumsnet ~ Which bastards have got the priority list wrong

Have another . Love it!

Let's allow the expert scientists to determine the priority list and have a bit of humility.

This thread is driving me mad!

The point of the vaccination programme is to catch the most likely to be hospitalised . So anyone in a care home first (as spread of anything is rife in communal living) and then age down.

Teachers may catch it. Police may catch it. A younger vulnerable person may catch it. BUT it is the old and frail who are most likely to be hospitalised (no, they don't fade and die very quickly) and occupy hospital beds for weeks, possibly infect health professionals who will then have to be off sick and consequently bring down the whole national health service.

As an ECV person, previously shielded, I find the behaviour of a lot of posters absolutely disgusting. The sheer arrogance and selfishness of thinking that they should be a priority leaves me despairing for human nature. I am in line, for sure, but do I think I trump everyone else? I would like to think I'm a decent enough person not to believe so.

I’m not arguing that I should have it (as I said upthread, I’m not even sure if I can), but hospitalisation is surely just as likely in younger ECV compared to a healthy 60 year old? If they’re just comparing age (as everything I have seen does), they aren’t comparing like for like.

I’ve been in hospital more times in the last few years than my mother and father combined

That is, if admission to hospital is the reason they are doing it in descending age

They can't take every individual case into account. This is a vaccination programme of potentially 70 million people.

Why don't we have a national balloon debate, and we can all argue why we should get priority over someone else. I suppose then people would be bickering about why they should be first to speak in the debate...

I used me as an example, but I mean on a population level - someone who is younger ECV is surely more likely to be admitted to hospital than a healthy sixty year old? If likelihood of hospital admission (for all reasons, not just covid) is their reasoning

People need to accept that all these lockdowns and restrictions were not about keeping individuals ‘safe’ but ensuring the NHS didn’t get overwhelmed.

And that’s what vaccine rollout will be about also. Age priority is the easiest thing to administer and the data clearly shows that the biggest risk factor is age. At a societal level, it’s not a difficult decision.

They can't take every individual case into account. This is a vaccination programme of potentially 70 million people.

Exactly

Now this may not be true for say 85+, but anecdotally at least, I can say it is true for the younger end of the older ages.

If the reason is ease of roll out, then say that.
Not that it’s cause of hospital admissions, or spreading the disease further, or vulnerability to covid. Each of these may be kind of true, but leave room for argument from teachers/ECV/whoever

@nether I'm still shielding. Unfortunately I can't get out to exercise so I'm pretty much housebound but I can go in the garden and take the car for a drive
Can't see parents still as it's too high risk (they are not the most compliant...)

@IrmaFayLear

They can't take every individual case into account. This is a vaccination programme of potentially 70 million people.

Why don't we have a national balloon debate, and we can all argue why we should get priority over someone else. I suppose then people would be bickering about why they should be first to speak in the debate...

They don't need to take every individual case into account. There is already a shielding list. Those people include those of all ages who are considered extremely clinical vulnerable. They should clearly be a priority.

But it’s not about feeling sorry for the clinically vulnerable or self-shielding (because it officially ended). And I was a shielded person. It’s not a case of, “Oh, let’s do Irma first because she’d like to go out and about.”

If you are staying at home then you are unlikely to contract covid, land up in hospital and languish there for some time. A person in a care home will spread it to the other residents and care workers and so on.

This is so exasperating. Can you not appreciate that this is a PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE and has to be planned to optimise reducing the spread? It’s not about who feels hardest done by. Strewth.

If you are staying at home then you are unlikely to contract covid, land up in hospital and languish there for some time

I understand that, but I'm saying that many on the CEV list will end up in hospital for other reasons than covid. Say for sepsis, pneumonia, etc. And because of that, they will be at additional risk.

I would assume (no idea of official stats, so I'm happy to be corrected) that someone on the CEV list is more likely to be hospitalised for a non-covid reason than a healthy person between approx 60-70 (maybe even those who are older than that)

This is why we don't ask for Mumsnet readers opinions in matters of public health.

Why don't we let the experts do what they do much better than us? We've seen the consequences of people doing what they think is right and it isn't pretty.

At the moment children aren't going to get the vaccine as it hasn't been tested on children. However the list is drawn up people aren't going to agree. At the moment the list is set up based on the order of those who are most likely to die from covid, eg the very old. I am sure we could all come up with ideas about how the list should be drawn up, why we/our loved ones should get priority. But personally I don't think that we should use this as another way of pitting ourselves against each other. The plan is to role out the vaccine asap, so hopefully we will all get it relatively soon (relative in the grand scheme of things). Until then we just all have to keep safe.

I'm sure there is a reason to the order (though our government is shockingly inept and probably picked it out of a hat like they did with the rules.)

I would have gone

1. most vulnerable
2. front line and key workers 3)care homes 4)over 50s Everyone else