To be so upset about mink fur farming and I can’t believe it’s legal.

[quest1on]

I think this is one of the most disgustingly inhumane industries I could imagine. What can I do? I’ve read today that France at least has banned mink-farming from now on, and Holland has also closed all farms permanently off the back of this Covid Outbreak, But Denmark?? Wtf are you doing? I thought you were a civilised society! Any country which allows this should be ashamed. I guess the one positive of Covid is that it’s shining a light on these appalling industries. People who work in this trade deserve a lot worse than bankruptcy and Covid. I don’t know how they can live with themselves.

Leather and sheepskin are a by product of the meat industry

That's quite different than keeping animals (in horrific conditions) solely to skin them isn't it?

Right, let’s breed millions of them then in cages.

Sorry, that was to Bazookas.

I don't understand how people can say wishing something bad is no better than doing something bad Shall we start arresting people who wish bad things now?

@Maireas

Fur farmed in the EU is mostly sold to China or Russia. The indigenous peoples that wear fur trap and hunt their own.

Not really. They are usually traded for. There aren't a whole lot of wild life in some of these places. Parts of Siberia and the North Slope I particular. Not to mention the fact that many native people can't get what they need because of people like OP. They tout morality and laws without ever living in those climates. They enact limitations on seal hunting. God Forbid if they kill a polar bear for food and warmth. What about about whaling for these communities. Provides food, clothing and oil but its being made illegal. Its not like they have an Asda or Walmart on the corner. What about the people who live and work on the North Slope? They aren't allowed to hunt seal and whale. They have no choice but to b uy fur from fur farms or they die.

Fgs - it’s not as if any mink farmer is actually going to be out in a cage, is it? What nonsense.

They might well get Covid as a byproduct of their vile industry. More importantly, so might many others.

They may go out of business. Oh dear.

A small price to pay for the abolition of a cruel disgusting practice.

I was agreeing with you by the way OP

I know rask.

Does anyone know how the Danes kill the mink for its fur? (Not for the cull). PETA is saying they’re poisoned, gassed, drowned or skinned alive.

Gassing

I can’t get worked up about it.

Do I think it’s a good thing? Well no. But is it any worse than industrial farming for meat? No, I don’t think it is.

It irritates the hell out of me when people gush all over the place about perceived cruelty to cute and fluffy things but turn a blind eye to practices that benefit them/would be difficult to give up, eg dairy.

Equally, if done humanely (which I appreciate industrial farming is ever likely to be) furs seem a far more environmentally friendly and sustainable option than oil dependent synthetic fibers which pollute the oceans with microplastics.

I get where you are coming from OP, it’s heartbreaking how animals are treated.

I hope that things change soon. I see positives in places, the amount of alternative milk and vegan options now is amazing and a lot of restaurants now offer several choices where as 20 years ago it was macaroni cheese or a cheese sandwich that may even contain rennet.

There should be better animal welfare laws throughout Europe, part of the anti Brexit argument was that leaving Europe would worsen the treatment of animals but we do have several banded practices that are legal in Europe.

Every vegan product you buy helps big companies see the need for more ethical alternatives whether that’s Merrells vegan trainers or make up and shampoo that’s not tested on animals.

Keep signing the petitions, raising awareness of issues and asking questions. It all helps to bring about change.

What about the people who live and work on the North Slope? They aren't allowed to hunt seal and whale. They have no choice but to buy fur from fur farms or they die.

That sounds like the proverbial “selling ice to the Eskimos”. Are these fur farms located very close to the indigenous people? I ask because I’d imagine that large commercial fur farms supplying the luxury food market would not want, for logistical reasons, to be out in the wilderness when they can function perfectly well in somewhere more temperate, as the Danish have proven. Given the restrictions you describe, I can imagine that there might be smaller commercial farm-type operations aimed at the local indigenous market, but would that not be a very different concern to the sort of large fur farms that service the luxury market in China and Russia?

Previous question was to @leannb

Oops typo in the second para- “luxury fur market” not “luxury food market”.

What gets me most is the fact that in china they beat the animals before they kill them to make skinning easier.

They then skin them alive. A video I saw of them live-skinning a beautiful red fox, half of it a bloody screaming writhing mass undulating with total agony, as they peeled off its skin. When done, they flung the dying blood red skinless fox onto a pile about 2m high of hundreds of dead or dying pathetic little red bodies.

The ‘kind’ ones kill them with anal electrocution.

Humanity is wicked. If I see you wearing fur I will lay into you, whoever you are.

so no, I don’t care one bit about how those farmers feed their families! I hope they get flayed alive and left to die on a bloodied heap of their own family members. Good riddance.

I am sure this happens in other countries too, that was just the videos I saw. My contempt applies to anyone who does this or equivalent whatever country they are a citizen off.

@ramblingsonthego

Speciesism at its finest on this thread! Unless you are already a vegan OP, you should feel this about all animals. Not just the fluffy cute ones.

Cool. I'm not vegan, so maybe I should rethink my stance and start wearing fur, then.

After all, there's no point bothering about animals being killed purely for expensive coats and fluffy bobbles on hats when I am OK with eating eggs.

If you convince everybody that isn't vegan that there's no merit in opposing the wearing of fur, that could be just the push the fur industry needs to get it universally accepted and bought again.

Are you going to answer my question @Leaannb?

I'm vegan. I became vegan because I wanted to lose weight and thought becoming a herbivore would help. Once I wasn't eating meat I was less reluctant to look at various documentaries about the meat industry and realised just how appallingly we treat other living creatures and how we've turned much of the world into a biodiversity desert for the sake of a hamburger. Fur and meat are both cruel and unnecessary industries. Try watching Carnate (nothing very distressing in it), which is a sort of comedy set in the future where people are trying to come to terns with the way animals were treated in the olden days - ie now.

@Peacocking I’ve Googled “Carnate” and nothing comes up- is it British or American and when did it come out?

OP I agree with you. Anyone who can hurt an animal is a disgusting human being.

It’s pathetic to say ‘well I can’t get too upset about it’ for the reasons you mentioned. Just because it goes on elsewhere doesn’t make it anymore disgusting.

Also people can have these views and not yet be 100% vegan. Every little helps and you can’t change everything overnight. Maybe people are weaning off meat/diary etc.

I honestly believe that humans and animals have an equal right to life. I wont even kill a spider. Who am i to cause suffering to a spider?

I also don’t mind people eating meat where the animal has had a decent life and suitable conditions. It’s the unnessesary suffering which really upsets me.

Just because someone in a cold country needs to wear fur does not mean that’s ok to kill an animal for it. I think this is crucial. People genuinely believe that a humans needs outweigh the life of an animal. And that thinking is wrong in my mind.

OP people are not being very nice to you on here but they probably don’t want to look at themselves and their own morals.

Thank god people are shocked and debating it.

Denmark has poor soils for farming, so mink and pig farming, indoors on small averages, is big there. What I find shocking is the lack of welfare standards on the tiny cages. The mink have to stand and sleep on metal bars their entire lives. No doubt for hygiene reasons, as straw gets dirty and needs cleaned. IMHO no excuse, it's to keep costs down to compete with the market in China,vabd current EU welfare law allow it.

I'm pragmatic - I don't think fur farming and other types of farming should be banned outright. What I think we need to do is work towards it becoming a more expensive, luxury priduct to pay for higher welfare standards. It would be better to encourage the EU trade, with higher welfare standards, than drive it completely overseas.

Slaughterhouse standards in thus country can also be barbaric as is long distance transportation of cattle, sheep, pigs, etc to slaughter - despite checks, many do break limbs. Denmark has at least banned halal slaughter.

So instead of targetting the Faeroe grind or the few remaining Inuit seal hunters, I'd rather we focused on poor British slaughterhouse conditions, and accept we need to pay slightly more for good quality meat. Meat which is tainted with the fear chemical adrenalin because an animal has watched its friends dyeing horribly and itself bleeds to death slowly while suspended from a hook, tastes terrible anyway.

Sorry, the film i referred to is Carnage, not Carnate. The word carnate is used a lot in the film and I confused it.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnage_(2017_film)#:~:text=Carnage%20is%20a%202017%20mockumentary,It%20premiered%20on%20BBC%20iPlayer.

Wasn’t it Denmark where bestiality was made illegal only a few years ago?

Why aren’t you complaining about them keeping pregnant sows lying down in cages? Or their annual slaughter of dolphins driven to shore and stabbed to death? Don’t open the link if you’re sensitive. www.thesun.co.uk/news/12173633/sea-red-blood-faroe-islands-whales-dolphins-slaughtered/