To be so upset about mink fur farming and I can’t believe it’s legal.

[quest1on]

I think this is one of the most disgustingly inhumane industries I could imagine. What can I do? I’ve read today that France at least has banned mink-farming from now on, and Holland has also closed all farms permanently off the back of this Covid Outbreak, But Denmark?? Wtf are you doing? I thought you were a civilised society! Any country which allows this should be ashamed. I guess the one positive of Covid is that it’s shining a light on these appalling industries. People who work in this trade deserve a lot worse than bankruptcy and Covid. I don’t know how they can live with themselves.

"As humans we have choices."

Not everyone has the same extent of choices and opportunities.

Ponoka - no, but ending up with 100,000 minks in tiny cages in what is effectively your back garden is no accident, is it? Quite a few “choices” made along the way there, clearly. Are telling me there was absolutely nothing else they could have possibly done with their lives?

I can't get too worked up about it, inhuman farming practices take place in the uk too, just look at caged hens.

However fur is an important clothing resource in countries with severe winters. I don't object on principal, assuming ethically produced and practical rather than fashionable.

It doesn't need to be now. No one on polar expeditions or climbing everest wears seal skin and fur to keep warm artificial fibres work just as well.

Oh well that’s fine then. Don’t worry, it happens everywhere...

Isn’t that a bit like saying - “oh dint sorry about the homeless in Britain, there’s homeless all over the world.”

Don’t worry about children who can’t get their free school lunches.,, there’s hungry children elsewhere too you know. I can’t get too worked up about it..,, “

@sashh

However fur is an important clothing resource in countries with severe winters. I don't object on principal, assuming ethically produced and practical rather than fashionable.

It doesn't need to be now. No one on polar expeditions or climbing everest wears seal skin and fur to keep warm artificial fibres work just as well.

Do you really think that the only people who have to spend time in severe winter conditions are explorers with huge amounts of money to buy artificial fibre high performance clothing?

'There are far more ethical ways to produce clothing for severe winters these days. We have the technology - we’re no longer living in caves.'

There are no better synthetic alternatives to fur and leather - there are alternatives that are not animal but they do not function as well, last as long and none of those in popular use are biodegradable. Looked after, fur and leather last for decades in a ways that alternatives don't. When ethically produced they have a smaller footprint than synthetic alternatives, they are not fossil fuel dependant and they don't shed microplastics.

I am not advocating that we all wear fur and leather but it's not as ethically black and white as it looks.

Well the poor and needy are hardly stepping out in their mink are they?

Approximately 50% of the world's farmed fur comes out of the EU, I don't know why you're shocked.

Around 15-20% of the world's fur market is from wild trapping (N America and Russia mainly), the remainder from farms. Europe, USA/Canada, Russia and China being the largest industries.

You say fur to people and their first thought is those awful videos which came out of China 10 years ago but the global trade in fur is far more widespread and varied than that.

@quest1on

There was an interview in one of the papers with a mink farmer who was expecting people to feel sorry for him because he has been ordered to cull thousands of mink and apparently he will lose everything and it’s taken him years to build to his industry..., “woe is me” etc etc

I hope he never recovers financially and gets Covid from his disgraceful business and I would suggest a cage is too good for people like this...

That last bit makes you absolutely disgusting and you are no better than him

Oh yes, the poor mink farmers. Will nobody care about them...

Christ on a bike.

@quest1on

Well the poor and needy are hardly stepping out in their mink are they?

The people in Siberia most defined are. So are the Innuit and other tribal people who live in the Far North. They are definitely not rolling in dough. Animals are for survival. From food to clothes they need it

@quest1on

Oh yes, the poor mink farmers. Will nobody care about them...

Christ on a bike.

Are you going to feed and clothe their families?

Are you wearing a woolly jumper and leather shoes, by any chance?

What's for dinner tonight?

“Are you going to feed and clothe their families?”

You are actually asking me that?

Danish animal welfare standards are shockingly poor.

I was genuinely surprised to learn that they have a thriving fur trade though. I thought fur was more of a Chinese and Russian thing.

The Chinese have had a disproportionate amount of criticism thrown at them since Covid but actually this is an international wake up call. We need to do better with animal welfare on a global level. For the good of both the animals and humanity.

Op how can you be 'practically' vegan?

You either are or you arent, no matter how long youve been nearly but not quite...

@SimonJT

Its no worse than animals grown to be slaughtered for meat.

However, anyone who wishes covid, financial ruin or living in a cage for another person is no more or less barbaric than mink fur farm owners, chicken farm owners etc.

You can’t pretend to find mink farming awful then wish awful things on a person.

This

I was genuinely surprised to learn that they have a thriving fur trade though. I thought fur was more of a Chinese and Russian thing.

@dannydyerismydad most of the Danish fur is sold to China and Russia.

@sashh

However fur is an important clothing resource in countries with severe winters. I don't object on principal, assuming ethically produced and practical rather than fashionable.

It doesn't need to be now. No one on polar expeditions or climbing everest wears seal skin and fur to keep warm artificial fibres work just as well.

You think Sherpas are using NorthFace? No they are using their traditional clothing that works much better. What aboit the Inuit who live in Alaska and Canada? The Lappis?People who live above the Artic Circle need fur. They use those animals to survive from food to clothes to shoes They need those animals to survive

It's a living, whether you like it or not. Perfectly legal. I hope all the owners and workers have paid their unemployment insurance - thats whatll feed and clothe and retrain them for the next 2 years if they cant find alternative employment. Thats a very real worry especially in northern jutland - theres not much going on.

@CheetasOnFajitas

I was genuinely surprised to learn that they have a thriving fur trade though. I thought fur was more of a Chinese and Russian thing.

@dannydyerismydad most of the Danish fur is sold to China and Russia.

Who need ot to survive.

All this “whataboutery” doesn’t work, by the way.

I think it’s fine for someone to say, for instance, “I’m not vegetarian, but I am cutting out red meat.”

Every little helps. It’s all a step in the right direction.

What doesn’t help is when people, rather than face the actual tragedy at hand, choose to deflect onto whatever else instead.

I wonder why they do this?

If someone comes on and says they are sickened by child poverty in x location, for instance, nobody comes on and asks why are they shocked and sickened because this happens everywhere and yadda yadda.

You can be concerned about other issues without being accused of hypocrisy, But no, when it comes to animal rights and welfare, you have to have been 100% vegan since birth to have an opinion, apparently.

Fwiw, I sometimes have milk in tea. This does not mean I am not allowed to be horrified by the mink trade.

@leannb I’m fairly sure that the vast majority of the pelts sold commercially from Europe are made into luxury goods worn by very rich Chinese and Russians.

I don’t dispute that there are people living all over the Arctic Circle who wear fur for practical reasons but most of that will be utility clothing made from animals they have trapped themselves or which have been trapped/made by small local craftspeople. Alexander Armstrong visited one on his Arctic Circle programme. I think, however, that when you have a country where it was historically normalised to wear fur to keep warm, the culture of wearing it as a luxury is harder to challenge because it’s just not seen as that big a deal.

@quest1on

"But these days, in the UK, you don’t see many people wearing fur coats or hats do you? And if you do, they look beyond ridiculous. It’s so easy to get alternatives that there’s no need anyway."

Not true..... Belstaff British made coats use coyote fur and Canadian Goose do too. Plenty of people in the UK buying and wearing these coats. I don't agree with it but I'm not veggie and I wear leather shoes so feels hypocritical.