Lack of sleep killing me

[Toomuchtooyoung01]

DD is 3.5yrs and woke regularly throughout the night until she was well over 2yrs. Around this time got pregnant with DS & had insomnia throughout the pregnancy. DS is now 9 months and sleeping similarly terribly. DD has now started waking up throughout the night. I am literally getting an maximum of 3hrs broken sleep evrry single night and it is killing me. If I'm not up with one its the other one. It would be comical the way they tag team each other in if I wasnt so exhausted. I am horribly short tempered and snappy with my kids, always shouting, we do go out daily to the park or playground etc and they are well looked after but I feel very much like I'm going through the motions as I'm too tired to enjoy anything. I look at their beautiful faces and feel barely anything except painfully tired. OH works long hours and isn't home much to help. No family to help and my friends all have their own babies or are back at work so dont feel I can put on them by asking for a break occasionally. Definitely no money to get a cleaner etc in to help on that front. DD is only doing 3 mornings a week at nursery at the moment and even though that's good for her and she enjoys it lots, its still not a break for me as I stillnhave DS to look after not to mention the constant piles of washing etc
The term breaking point has always felt like a cliche to me but that is how I feel now, like I can't go on like this. I'm being a horrible mum to my kids and they deserve more. I feel at best like I have a bad hangover every day, that horrible nausea and headache and general feeling of weakness.
PLEASE someone give me some advice on what to do when your kids just won't sleep, and why on earth has my 3yr old started waking up every 5mins again? I feel irrationally angry and every little thing sets me off into a rage. DD dropped some smarties on the floor yesterday and you would have thought she had dropped rocks of crack for her baby brother to find the way I lost it.
I didnt used to be like this and now I'm everything I didn't want to be as a mum. I'm becoming a monster and my kids are going to hate me

I'm just bumping for you. I suffer from insomnia and always thank my lucky stars that I don't have to look after anyone as going without sleep as the norm is tough enough. I'm sure some mums out there will have some ideas for you.

That sounds so difficult - I'm sorry you're going through it. Lack of sleep is an absolute killer and what you describe would push anyone to breaking point.

I really think you need to sit your DH down tonight and tell him the above, and work out how you're going to tackle it together.

Step 1 is definitely, without a doubt, you getting some decent sleep for a couple of nights. Your DH will have to step up, or take time off work to accommodate this. Going for weeks or months on 3.5 hours a night is completely unsustainable and unhealthy. Whatever it takes, this must happen.

Then you can think about how to get your children sleeping better more generally. Everything will look better and easier to deal with after some sleep for you.

Sorry I forgot to mention I'm breastfeeding DS so when he wakes up he wants a boob to settle back down with!

What happens if dh goes in to dd?

Oh OP this sounds so tough. We had similar with our 7 month DD and did Controlled crying and night weaning, it took her 3 days and then she slept through 7-7. Would highly recommend it as then one of them at least will be sleeping.

Then your husband needs to help in shifts with the older one. If you could time it for the night feed with the little one then you’d get a good chunk of sleep each. He does need to step up though.

Been there OP, it's awful.

Your OH needs to get up with kids and give you a few hours sleep in the morning before he starts work.

Fuck the cleaning.

Make life as easy as possible for yourself for a while. E.g. use paper plates so no washing up, serve same meal 4 x a week to kids, get ready meals for you and DH, don't worry about laundry piles, hide clutter in a cupboard until a later date. Lower your standards. It's not forever.

Get OH to take kids out on weekend so you can have a few hours to yourself. Sleep, have a bath, whatever makes you feel good.

Go to bed with the kids at least 3 times a week. Get OH to make his own dinner.

Cosleep.

Rant and fucking rave about everything to a trusted non judgemental friend who is a good listener. Don't have one? You're welcome to PM me.

You need to get back to a place where you can feel like you, and fill your cup.

You're a great mum, just knackered and at the end of your tether. If you are struggling with what I'm suggesting, ask yourself if you had to choose between not losing your shit at your kids and a clean house, what would you choose?

And ask a friend who isn't working to take DS while DD is at nursery once a week for an hour or two. Explain you're really struggling. You're allowed to use informal childcare during lockdown.

Sleep training is the only thing that worked for me. DS2 was up every 20 minutes for a period of time - it was hell.

Whether you leave them to cry it out or go in on them regularly but don't pick up them up - do whichever works best for you.

Oh god I've been there and it's tough. My kids are much better sleepers now ( youngest one 3yo and still not sleeping through mind you)

You desperately need some rest. Try and express if you can and get a big chunk of time where your dh does all of night time with both to let you get on top of the sleep deprivation. You will feel much better.

Then you need a longer term plan. That might be DH taking both kids out for the day 1 day on the weekend to give you some time and space to sleep and get on top of things.

Do you have family/ friends that could help out? Or could your ds go into nursery for a day? It won't be forever that you feel like this I promise but put in a plan until it gets better. Sleep deprivation is torture!

It's awful, isn't it?

I was similarly sleep deprived for 3 years. The only thing that helped was night-weaning and having my partner sleep in the same room as DS, as he (my partner) has no trouble falling asleep or getting back to sleep if awoken (whereas I had developed insomnia due to the anxiety that sleep deprivation caused me.)

Even though your partner works long hours, could he take responsibility for the older sibling in the night or share a room with them? It's much less disruptive than being pulled out of bed from another room several times a night.

What could you do to get more sleep?
When DD is at nursery, put DS somewhere safe (cot?) put toys in and try to nap. Tie him in something (bouncy chair, high chair, buggy) and stick him in front of the tv whilst you doze on the sofa. Not ideal, but better that you get some sleep right now.
Ditto when (if?) baby naps. Tv or tablet (if you've a protector for it!) whilst you nap on the sofa too.

Once you've had a bit more sleep, then you'll be better able to deal with it and come up with a sensible plan.

Can your husband at least get up with them both on the weekend (or whichever days he isn't working) so you can get a sleep in the morning? i know with breastfeeding it can be impossible to get an unbroken night, but another 3 hours in the morning could make a difference. And also maybe he could do the overnight wakeups with the older one so you dont have quite so many to deal with. x

The bottom line is you need to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to get more sleep. That's your starting point.

Whether this is sleep training, or no longer breast feeding your youngest in the night, it needs to happen.

FWIW, I slept trained both my dds at around 6 months doing the 'incredibly cruel' CIO method. Here's the thing. It wasn't cruel at all. 2 nights of a bit of crying , which of course they've both zero clue about now, resulted in them getting them the deep sleep that is vital to them (from that day forward), and my getting the deep sleep that is vital to me to be a good mum in the day.

You can't sustain this.

I agree with PP about sleep training. So often on mumsnet people put up with years and years of terrible sleep and act as though its normal and you should put up with it for choosing to have children. I completely disagree- YOU are important too. Your baby is 9 months so I would absolutely look to night wean and sleep train. They will sleep better which is SO important for development and you will feel 100 x better. We sleep trained DD1 at a similar age and it made the the world of difference. DC2 never needed it and slept through much younger- had she been our first I can see why some people smugly claim to be 'baby led' and 'would never let them cry'. But its not in anyones interest for you all to be tired and miserable.

"Congratulations" to all the people who easily sleep trained and weaned their baby... Not all babies are the same.

I attempted weaning and sleep training my dc2 multiple times and after several nights of blood curdling screaming lasting hours I would give up because I was getting ZERO hours sleep.

It's not always two nights of "a bit of crying".

Maybe my baby was the outlier but comments like "make it happen" don't help parents of children like my dc2.

@Napqueen1234

I agree with PP about sleep training. So often on mumsnet people put up with years and years of terrible sleep and act as though its normal and you should put up with it for choosing to have children. I completely disagree- YOU are important too. Your baby is 9 months so I would absolutely look to night wean and sleep train. They will sleep better which is SO important for development and you will feel 100 x better. We sleep trained DD1 at a similar age and it made the the world of difference. DC2 never needed it and slept through much younger- had she been our first I can see why some people smugly claim to be 'baby led' and 'would never let them cry'. But its not in anyones interest for you all to be tired and miserable.

This.

I do not know how people can live like that.
Years of no sleep, everyone miserable and destroyed with exhaustion.

Why is your DD only in 3 mornings a week at 3.5? Don't you get free hours?

I would up the time she's in nursery so you can rest more / have less chores those days.

I would also sleep train her. It takes dedication but at 3.5 you should all be getting better sleep. I would look to night wean your son in a few months too.

First thing first, your husband needs to pull his weight. I don't care what hours he works, you don't let someone you love survive on such little broken sleep, whilst getting a full night himself.

Given you are breastfeeding, you deal with the baby, he deals with the toddler. If he feels tired, well join the parenting club. He'll manage like the rest of us do.

@nanbread

"Congratulations" to all the people who easily sleep trained and weaned their baby... Not all babies are the same.

I attempted weaning and sleep training my dc2 multiple times and after several nights of blood curdling screaming lasting hours I would give up because I was getting ZERO hours sleep.

It's not always two nights of "a bit of crying".

Maybe my baby was the outlier but comments like "make it happen" don't help parents of children like my dc2.

This. I was so sleep deprived with my eldest I was having hallucinations. I absolutely hated the idea of sleep training though, but my health said that while she didn’t normally recommend it, I needed to try it for my own sanity. So 7 o clock one night I put her to bed to start training, I lasted until 4.30am. We’d gone through 9 and a half hours of relentless screaming, she never stopped or slept for a single minute. When I went up to check on her at half four she was sat in the cot, covered in her own vomit, her face was as white as a sheet and she was violently shaking with fear. I’d never do that again. Luckily she’s got to the age where it’s hard to get her out of bed nowadays and my other dc’s were excellent sleepers

So 7 o clock one night I put her to bed to start training, I lasted until 4.30am. We’d gone through 9 and a half hours of relentless screaming, she never stopped or slept for a single minute. When I went up to check on her at half four she was sat in the cot, covered in her own vomit, her face was as white as a sheet and she was violently shaking with fear.

I’m sorry this was your experience but I sleep trained my baby and I’d never have just shut the door from 7.30pm and then only checked in on her at 4.30am. That would be very upsetting. Perhaps the way it’s worded that implies you just let the baby cry but a good recommendation is to do check-ins so the baby knows that you’re still there.

If it doesn’t work, it’s suggested there may be an underlying medical condition (such as reflux) so OP if you do go down that route then it’s a good idea to just check in with your GP before you do so you know that she’s crying because she’s frustrated about not being able to sleep rather than for any physical / discomfort reason

Sending you strength. It is so so awful being that tired. No wonder you are desperate. I agree with sleep training. I didn't find it as easy as ' two nights with a bit of crying' but it was definitely worth it. Buy a sleep book and follow it (they basically all say the same but follow one approach for simplicity). All the research I've read says that by 9 months, most babies do not need night feeds I.e. Good weight, no SEN or prem. Also agree that you need to speak to your husband about helping. If you are like me, you'll be thinking you can ask for help from him because it's your fault you're in this situation. It's not!! Some kids are nightmare sleepers; it's universal. Do not speak to people with good sleepers because they have NO idea.

Lots of sympathy, both DC here were and are terrible sleepers. At age 6 DC1 now reliably sleeps through most nights and at age 2.5 DC2 wakes up twice a night, once if I'm lucky. I have worked full time throughout and since March have been working from home which has been absolutely awful as I'm often so tired i can barely stay awake in front of my laptop. But here are some of the things we've tried which helped us at various points:

1. DH coslept with DC1 when she woke at night with a nightmare from about age 4 onwards. DH used to sleep like a log but once he became responsible for DC1 at night he now wakes easily and goes in quickly to settle her. These days it is once a month at most.
2. DC2 coslept with me until age 2, initially in a double bed mattress on the floor (can recommend the Ikea Malfors firm mattress, was the best £99 I spent!!) More recently DC2 has been in her own bed but we have a twin set up next to it so when she wakes I go in, settle her and then go to sleep myself there. I can't deal with walking back and forth between bedrooms all night.
3. When DC1 was younger she was jealous of me sleeping with DC2 so we ended up 3 of us in 1 room for a few months as well. Made a temporary floor bed for DC1 next to the other floor mattress.
4. I use every opportunity to get extra sleep. I go to bed at 8.30 or 9pm at least 2 nights a week.
5. I tell myself it won't last and I want DC to remember all the happy safe and comforting memories of being cared for when they wake at night so I am ok to put up with lack of sleep, even though it is incredibly hard and tiring.
6. As a young child I was left to cry it out as my dad worked away and my mum couldn't cope with my nighttime needs. I used to have a recurring nightmare of being chased along through the house by wolves for many years. It was traumatic and I never want my kids to go through that so its a price I'm prepared to pay. I accept this is different for everyone.
7. When I was at breaking point when DC1 was about 18mths old and I'd literally not had a single night off since being pregnant we paid for a sleep consultant who not only helped with night weaning her but also helped my DH to step up and take more responsibility. Was the second best £99 we spent and gave us confidence to make the changes that were right for us. Consultant did not recommend cry it out or any form of controlled crying at all where the child is left alone.

I also have a DH who ‘works long hours and isn’t around much to help’ but unless DH is a permanent night shift worker he is around overnight...he’s just not helping.

Every night that DH is in bed between midnight and 6am he can take DD and you can take DS!

‘But DH doesn’t hear DD’ ... no he just doesn’t get up with her. Fine, he can sleep in her room on an air bed until he learns to hear her. Or in the hallway outside her room.

I understand how you feel OP but exhausted struggling mums getting crap all help from DP/DH is such a common occurrence on here. Demand better!

Sleep train. It will save your sanity and make you a better parent. We had to get a professional in, pm me details if you would like some details of what we did (he disappearing chair method). Also your husband should be helping, you are also doing long hours and shouldn't be doing every wake up, he can take the toddler while you deal with the baby

Your dh should take a couple of days holiday and look after kids while you.go to.bed and sleep.