Lack of sleep killing me

[Toomuchtooyoung01]

DD is 3.5yrs and woke regularly throughout the night until she was well over 2yrs. Around this time got pregnant with DS & had insomnia throughout the pregnancy. DS is now 9 months and sleeping similarly terribly. DD has now started waking up throughout the night. I am literally getting an maximum of 3hrs broken sleep evrry single night and it is killing me. If I'm not up with one its the other one. It would be comical the way they tag team each other in if I wasnt so exhausted. I am horribly short tempered and snappy with my kids, always shouting, we do go out daily to the park or playground etc and they are well looked after but I feel very much like I'm going through the motions as I'm too tired to enjoy anything. I look at their beautiful faces and feel barely anything except painfully tired. OH works long hours and isn't home much to help. No family to help and my friends all have their own babies or are back at work so dont feel I can put on them by asking for a break occasionally. Definitely no money to get a cleaner etc in to help on that front. DD is only doing 3 mornings a week at nursery at the moment and even though that's good for her and she enjoys it lots, its still not a break for me as I stillnhave DS to look after not to mention the constant piles of washing etc
The term breaking point has always felt like a cliche to me but that is how I feel now, like I can't go on like this. I'm being a horrible mum to my kids and they deserve more. I feel at best like I have a bad hangover every day, that horrible nausea and headache and general feeling of weakness.
PLEASE someone give me some advice on what to do when your kids just won't sleep, and why on earth has my 3yr old started waking up every 5mins again? I feel irrationally angry and every little thing sets me off into a rage. DD dropped some smarties on the floor yesterday and you would have thought she had dropped rocks of crack for her baby brother to find the way I lost it.
I didnt used to be like this and now I'm everything I didn't want to be as a mum. I'm becoming a monster and my kids are going to hate me

Get a plug in white noise machine for both rooms - not expensive and available on Amazon. My three year old stopped waking up when I started using one a few months ago. They are life savers!

Your DH needs to help more with the night wakings. I was in a similar position a few years ago. DH had a very demanding long hours job and was often not home till 9pm+. He still shared the night wakings, not equally but he did maybe 1/3 of them because I needed to be able to function. Our DC1 was difficult and looking after her plus a baby was honestly harder than his or my jobs.

Are you planning to go back to work soon? Going back to work helped me as it was actually less demanding than looking after two small children. Demanding mentally but not physically. And better for the DC too as they had someone not tired looking after them.

BTW I sleep trained both mine quite young, didn’t co sleep or feed to sleep etc, followed all the advice - it helped a bit but they still woke loads (both had medical reasons as it turned out).

Oh yes that's a good call, white noise - OR if you look at Mindful Kids on YouTube they have some 10+ hour long sleep music tracks which you can play all night (assuming you have a device you can play it on)

I feel you. It’s hideous.

I chose a night to be my night to sleep. His and always around Thursday night and wfh Friday so I get in from work thursday have dinner shower and go straight to bed. I’m in there by 7 and he gets up with dd and I sleep for at least 11/12 hours.

Can you bedshare? Get them a floor bed in your room?

Bless you op, I've been there done that with my eldest and it was sheer hell. I fell asleep standing up with a pan of chips on the hob ( was 25 years ago ).
DH found me and it instantly cured his not being able to hear dc at night .
Also our HV sorted a referral to a local sleep clinic as DC was over 2 and a half. Cant remember all the details of the sleep plan but I do remember that it was broken down into small chunks over 6 weeks. DC was sleeping through by week 3.

I know how you feel, I have 3 children 5 and under and the 1yo has never slept through and is breastfed, once she wakes I can't sleep so I get around 3hrs. My work suffers as I manage a care home 40hrs a week minimum and can't concentrate as well as I could previously. I feel like I'm half arsing it at home and half arsing it at work.

Is your partner there over night? Mine often works nights but when he's home he tends to the children so I can sleep. He also has them whilst I nap.

Co sleeping helps for me, is this an option?

I know people will say sleep train but I won't do cry it out and none of the gentle methods have worked.

Good luck anyway. Ensure your partner does his fair share. And please ask family for help. The worst they can say is no after all.

Your husband needs to pull his weight with the kids that he's helped create. Having a job doesn't make his sleep and mental health more important than yours.

So 7 o clock one night I put her to bed to start training, I lasted until 4.30am. We’d gone through 9 and a half hours of relentless screaming, she never stopped or slept for a single minute. When I went up to check on her at half four she was sat in the cot, covered in her own vomit, her face was as white as a sheet and she was violently shaking with fear.

@whysrumgone that's not sleep training, that's neglect. Why on earth did you keep going for 9 hours!? I did a LOT of reading around it and everyone recommending CC said that if it hasn't worked after 2-3 hours, stop.

I would sleep train and night wean. Sleep training doesn’t have to involve leaving your baby to cry alone, not even for a minute!
CC and CIO works well for some babies but when I tried CC with my first it just created a massive cot aversion. He was terrified and began crying and shaking at the beginning of our bedtime routine. It was heartbreaking. So I sleep trained mine using a very gentle method. And I have now used the same method with dozens of families I have worked with. I explained the method on thread on parenting called ‘anyone else feel like a fool for not sleep training’. You can speed it up by skipping the first few steps and starting by placing baby awake in cot and stroking/patting baby. There will be a few more tears this way but you are there comforting the whole time.

So 7 o clock one night I put her to bed to start training, I lasted until 4.30am. We’d gone through 9 and a half hours of relentless screaming, she never stopped or slept for a single minute. When I went up to check on her at half four she was sat in the cot, covered in her own vomit, her face was as white as a sheet and she was violently shaking with fear.

This is not sleep training. Its extinction cry it out.

Sleep training (especially with a baby over 7 or 8m old with ingrained habits) takes TIME. You have to gradually reduce their reliance on you for sleep, working down from bf to sleep through things like rocking, patting, staying next to the cot, until you can ultimately leave the room while they are awake. Everyone I know who has "failed" with an older baby, it's because they've refused to do ANY sleep training/good habits until about 15m them "cracked" one night and just ignored their child screaming for hours thinking they will magically forget all their usual habits. The older they are the more "training" they need to unlearn old habits.

Cannot believe someone on here left their baby all night screaming and vomiting.. That's really distressing to read and is not at all what sleep training is about. Poor child

I just don’t understand those people who say they’re getting only a few hours sleep a night / toddlers wake up every hour / their work and relationship is suffering etc

CC might sound awful but if babies can’t get to sleep on their own they’ll cry anyway, so the crying is proportionally way way less than years of broken sleep for the whole family. You’re not doing your babies any favours by letting them wake up so often either, babies need decent sleep for growth and development.

Just seems such an odd choice to be happy to the point of martyrdom with the whole family not getting any sleep when there are solutions available.

Ps in answer to the OP. You need to start sleep training both children. It will take possibly a few weeks with the older one, and you will need to be firm and consistent, using reward charts, gro clocks etc to encourage her not to be disturbing you all night. I would recommend your DH take over for 2 or 3 nights before you start and you get a few decent nights sleep, then together agree a plan and STICK to it. You do not need to leave children screaming for hours alone in their beds, but you do need to:
Gradually work towards putting them to bed awake
Keep returning them to their own beds all night, if that is where you prefer them to sleep.

@Kittykat93

Cannot believe someone on here left their baby all night screaming and vomiting.. That's really distressing to read and is not at all what sleep training is about. Poor child

Yeah, I'm as far from an attachment parent as they come, but reading that made me so incredibly uncomfortable. That, to my mind, is genuinely child abuse. The PP said she was going in and out of the room, but she also said the child didn't stop screaming for 9+ hours. I cannot fathom letting your child cry for that long. It makes you worry what else goes on in that home.

I would also try sleep training and I say that as someone who has coslept and bf two until toddlerhood.

I would never advocate CIO or extinction ever, and my own preference has been to avoid sleep training as long as I feel I'm coping, however there are different ways of sleep training that are gentler, more gradual and less traumatic for everyone concerned and in your position I would try one of those. It's all very well to have gentle child led principles around sleep, I do myself, but if you're feeling like this then those principles aren't working for your family anymore.

My 2.5 year old went into her toddler bed last week and is sleeping better than she has in months - in hindsight I think she needed her own space sooner and your younger one may be the same.

As for your older one, if she isn't in her own room I'd put her in, make it a big thing, choose bedding, have a cast iron bedtime routine, use white noise, a star projector, a grow clock, reward chart, whatever. Give it a few weeks. Also get your husband to pull his weight

Does your husband work weekends and, if not, can he take over from you at least some of the time to allow you some decent sleep? I'd suggest he also needs to take time off during the week to give you a break.

You’re not doing your babies any favours by letting them wake up so often either

How do you "let" a baby wake up? You can wake them up, but you can't stop them waking up by themselves.

Are you in London, OP?

If so, get your GP to refer your 3.5 year old here: www.evelinalondon.nhs.uk/our-services/hospital/sleep-medicine-department/referrals.aspx

I'd get a referral to a paediatric neurologist in your area (if not in London) who can then plug your DD into sleep medicine services.

You’re not doing your babies any favours by letting them wake up so often either

Good God what a comment! This is prize winning!

Controlled crying/ sleep training whatever you want to call it. You need to do it. Yes it is really hard and the majority of babies will cry a lot for a couple of hours but it will only take a few evenings - may be a bit longer for the older child . You need to teach your children how to self settle. It will feel awful the first night but within a few days you will all be so much happier and healthier, lack of sleep and broken nights isn't just hard on the parents it can cause lots of health issues for kids if not addressed as well.
Forget that bloody advert - that's about kids suffering neglect and abuse - you will have a short term few guilt inducing days but long term be all so much better for tackling the sleep,

@Thirtyrock39 I agree that sleep training would be beneficial for this family. But sleep training doesn’t not need to be CC or leaving baby to cry alone. You can sleep train without having to feel guilty/awful as you say. Yes it will take a bit longer. But not all babies take well to CC, some just keep crying, are sick ir become incredibly distressed. It’s not a choice between no sleep or leaving baby to cry. There is a middle ground!

Get DH to book annual leave if you can. Sleep for day or two while he deals with them. Then agree plan to sort. Wean DS if need be. You need sleep more than he needs milk in night frankly. It’s a safety issue. Consistent and firm approach. It will be hard but worth it. Good luck.

I would sleep train too. You need to sleep and your little ones need their sleep too. Could you get advice from a sleep consultant?

I used gradual withdrawal (is this similar to disappearing chair method?) for nap training, starting at the cot and moving further away gradually (it was supposed to be move every three days, it did take a little longer). You start next to the cot, shushing and stroking/hand on chest if needed. Then you stop the stroking and move a foot away. Then near the door, then outside the door. Worked after a couple of weeks, then baby slept through at night soon after. I sent my OH in for the night wake ups as he didn't have milk and they went back quicker/without it. Baby was so much happier when they started sleeping better.

You need sleep, it is so important. It is a safety issue, I couldn't have driven safely when at my most sleep deprived.

I found Sarah Ockwell Smith didn't have any actual advice either. Just "wait for your sweet baby to sleep". I was in a mum's group who rated her very highly, and none of their babies slept. She makes you feel better that they don't sleep, that only lasts a couple of days until the sleep deprivation makes you feel terrible again.

Cannot believe someone on here left their baby all night screaming and vomiting.. That's really distressing to read and is not at all what sleep training is about. Poor child

She didn't leave her baby all night, she was going in...

But frankly it's threads like this where the majority of posters are telling desperate parents that they have GOT to sleep train
NEED to sleep train
it only takes a few nights
be firm
Be consistent
"you're not doing your baby any favours"
"The most important thing"
"I don't understand people who don't"
You're a martyr if you don't

Which leads to people taking action like that, out of desperation and a thought that maybe if they just try for another half hour they will go to sleep and the tortuous, hellish 3/4/5 hours + of screaming won't have been in vain.

@nanbread

Cannot believe someone on here left their baby all night screaming and vomiting.. That's really distressing to read and is not at all what sleep training is about. Poor child

She didn't leave her baby all night, she was going in...

But frankly it's threads like this where the majority of posters are telling desperate parents that they have GOT to sleep train
NEED to sleep train
it only takes a few nights
be firm
Be consistent
"you're not doing your baby any favours"
"The most important thing"
"I don't understand people who don't"
You're a martyr if you don't

Which leads to people taking action like that, out of desperation and a thought that maybe if they just try for another half hour they will go to sleep and the tortuous, hellish 3/4/5 hours + of screaming won't have been in vain.

I'm sorry, the poster in question let her child cry for NINE HOURS. You will not find a single person on this site or any other advocating for that.

Suggesting that people promoting sleep training leads to neglect is like saying healthy eating leads to starvation.

Common sense and decency should kick in somewhere around the 3-4hr mark. Not at 4.30am when you find your child covered in vomit and shaking with fear.