Lack of sleep killing me

[Toomuchtooyoung01]

DD is 3.5yrs and woke regularly throughout the night until she was well over 2yrs. Around this time got pregnant with DS & had insomnia throughout the pregnancy. DS is now 9 months and sleeping similarly terribly. DD has now started waking up throughout the night. I am literally getting an maximum of 3hrs broken sleep evrry single night and it is killing me. If I'm not up with one its the other one. It would be comical the way they tag team each other in if I wasnt so exhausted. I am horribly short tempered and snappy with my kids, always shouting, we do go out daily to the park or playground etc and they are well looked after but I feel very much like I'm going through the motions as I'm too tired to enjoy anything. I look at their beautiful faces and feel barely anything except painfully tired. OH works long hours and isn't home much to help. No family to help and my friends all have their own babies or are back at work so dont feel I can put on them by asking for a break occasionally. Definitely no money to get a cleaner etc in to help on that front. DD is only doing 3 mornings a week at nursery at the moment and even though that's good for her and she enjoys it lots, its still not a break for me as I stillnhave DS to look after not to mention the constant piles of washing etc
The term breaking point has always felt like a cliche to me but that is how I feel now, like I can't go on like this. I'm being a horrible mum to my kids and they deserve more. I feel at best like I have a bad hangover every day, that horrible nausea and headache and general feeling of weakness.
PLEASE someone give me some advice on what to do when your kids just won't sleep, and why on earth has my 3yr old started waking up every 5mins again? I feel irrationally angry and every little thing sets me off into a rage. DD dropped some smarties on the floor yesterday and you would have thought she had dropped rocks of crack for her baby brother to find the way I lost it.
I didnt used to be like this and now I'm everything I didn't want to be as a mum. I'm becoming a monster and my kids are going to hate me

You have my sympathy. It's bloody horrible.

Your DH needs to do more. DS2 basically only slept if upright on someone's shoulder and moving from 6 months - 2 years. DS1 (3 years older) had long phases of night waking during this time too. While DS2 was BF and small, I dealt with him and DH dealt with DS1 if he woke. Once DS2 was over 1 and I could night wean him, we split the night so one person did the early shift and one person the late shift. I went back to work full time when DS2 was 9 months, so there was absolutely no option but for DH to do his fair share. It wasn't optional.

On the question of your DD waking. No idea if this applies to you, but DS1 went through phases of night waking when he was anxious about something (he's quite an anxious personality). If we had several days/weeks of night waking (as opposed to a one off after a nightmare) it was invariably in response to an emotional trigger of some kind: we had a phase while I was pregnant, a phase after DS2 was born, a long phase around the time nursery finished and he started school. So it might be worth thinking if there's anything that she might be worrying about and disturbing her sleep: does it correlate to DS's arrival? Or starting nursery perhaps?

@ShirleyPhallus

So 7 o clock one night I put her to bed to start training, I lasted until 4.30am. We’d gone through 9 and a half hours of relentless screaming, she never stopped or slept for a single minute. When I went up to check on her at half four she was sat in the cot, covered in her own vomit, her face was as white as a sheet and she was violently shaking with fear.

I’m sorry this was your experience but I sleep trained my baby and I’d never have just shut the door from 7.30pm and then only checked in on her at 4.30am. That would be very upsetting. Perhaps the way it’s worded that implies you just let the baby cry but a good recommendation is to do check-ins so the baby knows that you’re still there.

If it doesn’t work, it’s suggested there may be an underlying medical condition (such as reflux) so OP if you do go down that route then it’s a good idea to just check in with your GP before you do so you know that she’s crying because she’s frustrated about not being able to sleep rather than for any physical / discomfort reason

Now point out the part where I said that’s what I did? For a start I never shut the door and I was in the next room. I left her for 2 minutes, then went back to soothe her (but not pick her up), then I left her for 5 minutes, then 10, then every 15 for the rest of the night. I was in and out of that room approx 40 times that night. Tit

What a rude but vintage insult for what wasn’t a very salty reply to your misleading post

So 7 o clock one night I put her to bed to start training, I lasted until 4.30am. We’d gone through 9 and a half hours of relentless screaming, she never stopped or slept for a single minute. When I went up to check on her at half four she was sat in the cot, covered in her own vomit, her face was as white as a sheet and she was violently shaking with fear

This is exactly why I won't ever follow cry it out. It's cruel. It's been suggested but I can't prove that the spike in cortisol has a lasting impact.

Remember that NSPCC advert.... "He doesn't cry because he knows nobody will come". It's no different.

There are plenty more gentle approaches.

OP have you thought about cosleeping all in one bed? Boot DH out so you've got more room. Or he can sleep with your dd and you with ds

Thankyou everyone for your replies!
@WombatStewForTea we are already co-sleeping and OH is on the sofa! Sorry forgot to mention this in my permanent sleep deprived fog!
I also have been extremely reluctant to practice cry it out, I remember in desperation with DD when she was about 1yr and still woke every 2hrs (!!!!) we attempted it and her screaming for me literally brought me to tears within 2mins. Yes I am a wimp! I totally know what you mean about the NSPCC advert by the way!

You need to sleep train. Your eldest is going to be going to school next year I presume, they need good full night's sleep. I'd focus on your eldest first...sticker charts, bribery, watch some supernannny episodes, whatever works best.

Then once that's sorted, then you can deal with your youngest..

I have NC for this and have got my tin hat on. I sleep trained both of my DD's when I got to the point with both of them that I was suicidal from lack of sleep. With younger DD I remember she was about 9 months old and waking relentlessly.

I put a travel cot up in the lounge. I made sure DD was safe, warm and had access to water in a bottle (which she was more than capable of feeding herself at that point). Then I shut all the doors, put some ear plugs in and Went To Bed. It took 2 nights - DH did sneak in to check on her just to make sure she was ok when she was quiet (sleeping), but that was it. She didn't die.

And hands down she slept reliably every single night since, ever, apart from the very occasional bad dream or feeling poorly.

Do what you need to do OP.

Have a google of Tracey Hogg The Sleep Whisper. She was a life saver with my youngest, who was sleeping through from around 8 months.
My eldest however, was an awful sleeper! I remember dreading night times, it made me so anxious!

Have you looked into what their nap times are like? What types of meals they ate having? Bedtime routine etc ?

There was another thread on here today going on and on about how awful and barbaric sleep training is, but I'm not sure why so many people think sleep training=screaming baby, CC or CIO

We sleep trained our son over about 6 weeks. First week we stayed by his cot with our hand on his chest til he fell asleep. Second week by the cot but no hand on chest. Third week a ft away from the cot etc etc. until we were sat outside the door and then eventually could just go and he'd fall asleep on his own.

He sleeps through the night now, he's happier, I'm not going insane any more and it wasn't traumatic in any way for any of us 🤷🏻‍♀️ I don't know why you wouldn't tbh. And yes he cried but I was right there, he wasn't really distressed and he wasn't alone

Hard hat on.

I taught my child to eat, to read, to play, to get dressed, to share, to have fun. Basically everything. I also taught them how to sleep. Most important thing. It’s the cornerstone. You have got to sleep train and yes you can do it gently but your kids must be feeling awful with all the broken sleep. And you are clearly at breaking point. DH must help. This is unsustainable but sleep train. You can make this better.

If your husband is there at night then you can do alternate nights. Ditch the cosleeping if it's not working for you. Try sleep training (it doesnt have to be cry it out, there are plenty of gentler techniques to try).

I had three non sleepers so you have my utmost sympathy. It was very challenging. Sarah Ockwell Smith's 'The Gentle Sleep Book' is worth a read. Good luck xx

sleep train them, life is too short. Plus you miss all the lovely bits of being a mum.

I decided sleep training was preferable to a car crash caused by exhaustion or having a nervous breakdown.

@Toomuchtooyoung01
If the cosleeping isn't working for you then that's something you can change. Is it DD who is more of an issue than ds? Can you tag team them so you take one and DH takes the other?

I'm still confused as to why you DH can't help..

I love how people on here just "chose" to sleep train, like it's as easy as picking out which sandwich your want for lunch...

All conveniently ignoring my post above.

Not all babies can be sleep trained. Certainly not in a few nights.

Not all will handle disappearing chair techniques either.

Sleep training often needs to be done repeatedly too.

Those who did it easily had easily trainable babies. Maybe that's most of them, I don't know. Lucky you.

Trust me I tried everything, over the course of more than a year, I ended up under mental health crisis team due to lack of sleep... That wasn't a choice either.

Ok so you are at breaking point and your OH needs to step up, now.

He needs to get off the sofa and go to sleep in your daughter's room. He must not let her disturb you. He must get up with the kids when they wake until he has to start work, and keep them quiet. He could speak to his employer about changing his hours temporarily if he starts very early.

We put a double bed in my oldest's room for this very purpose. But a bed on floor would be fine too.

I’ve been here. Exactly here. Do whatever it takes to sleep. Can you extend your DD hours? Is she doing mornings or afternoons? Coincide her nursery with your DS nap time (afternoon?) and sleep when he sleeps. Put CBeebies on for DD and nap on the sofa. Go to bed and sleep for an hour at 6pm when your OH gets home from work. Do whatever it takes.

and I commend you for doing park visits but not when you’re dying! Sit on the sofa. Put frozen on repeat and snooze.

and weekends, your OH takes over and you go back to bed as often as possible.

Urgh, I remember those days well. Everything is just in shades of grey and you just seem to ache constantly. So much sympathy for you right now.

I'd perhaps be selective about how you read the advice to sleep train. It works for some kids, not for others. I've got two, and it worked for one, not the other. In my experience, if it doesn't work for your kid, in addition to being sleep deprived, you end up feeling more crap. And the Sarah Ockwell Smith book made me feel guilty for wanting to sleep train. (I find her books to be sanctimonious and devoid of actual practical advice.)

I do agree with everyone that says your first priority is to get as much sleep as possible, however that happens. Your husband may work long hours, but he definitely has the easier ride here, so get him to do all housework. Both weekend mornings are yours to catch up on sleep. They are not lie ins, they are replacing the sleep you've not had. Lots of screen time so you can doze.

Gro clock or bribery for your eldest? Although I remember being sleep deprived and bellowing "BED" multiple times when my eldest was that age because I was so broken (although to be fair, it often worked!)

And most importantly, you are doing well. You're keeping your children safe, fed, clean and loved while being absolutely exhausted. You are doing bloody well.

As asked by multiple PPs,
Where is your husband in all this?
Whatever you decide to do, you shouldn't have to do it alone.

I went through this a few years ago and I was at breaking point. Lost my mind, couldn’t cope, angry all the time, forgot the most ridiculous things, crying, looking shit, going mad. The thing that saved me was my husband stepping in, even though he was massively busy with work. He had to experience that tiredness too. I slept in another room for a couple of nights a week with ear plugs. You have to do it. Even on the sofa. Make it really cosy and close the door. Do it! 💐

Ps. I know that sleep training doesn’t always work, it did for my first and not my second. No matter how hard I tried. But it will get better one day and you will sleep again.