Child's class bubble close but should it have been?

[TellerTuesday4EVA]

This also happened to a friend with DC at a different school.

Message to parents last night, DD's class bubble will now be closed and children to isolate for 14 days as a child in the bubble has tested positive over the weekend.

Class group chat starts, one mum comes on & says it's X but we're ok. Then says X doesn't have any symptoms, was me on Friday afternoon and husband Saturday but we got her tested anyway and it's positive.

Now every single thing I have read says only to have a test if you develop symptoms. X would have to self isolate anyway due to the parents having positive tests but by getting her tested they now closed the bubble and all 30 kids are at home for 14 days. This what would happen if following the rules but then it shows the system if flawed as this child obviously did have it and was asymptotic.

So I don't know if I'm right to be annoyed by this or not. I'm certainly not looking forward to 2 weeks home schooling again.

X would have to self isolate anyway due to the parents having positive tests but by getting her tested they now closed the bubble and all 30 kids are at home for 14 days
And now there's less chance of any other child she may have invested giving it to your child, then you, granny and grandpa, the teachers, the teachers medically vulnerable child, the bloke at the supermarket with a heart condition and so on.

What an utterly selfish bitch that mother is, trying to stop the spread of Corona virus

@Oblomov20

"who then pass it to their grandparents "

Eh?

No one is supposed to be seeing their grandparents atm. In lockdown. And you wouldn't see your grandchildren if you were that vulnerable , would you?

So that doesn't really apply?

Some children live in extended households with their grandparents.

Grandparents are allowed to be childcare support for their grandchildren, even in lockdown.

Single/windowed grandparents may be in household bubbles with a child's family.

Some parents are carers for their own parents, the children's grandparent. Child passes it to parent, parent passes it to grandparent. It's not outside the realms of possibility.

My 5 year old sits next to a boy that tested positive. He had to get tested. He tested negative, had he tested positive everyone in our household would have needed to be tested. That's the rule in Ireland I think.

If one of our household had it then I would want us all tested. Obviously.

Thank goodness the parents did get the child tsted.

My dd had a test despite no symptoms after having close contact with a positive case. She got tested because 2 days before being informed of her contact she had attended a hospital appointment and a few hours before she was informed she had helped to care for her grandmother with dementia whilst her grandfather attended an appointment. Plus one of her flatmates in immuno compromised.

Her negative test didn't shorten her isolation, but it let us know what we were dealing with in terms of her previous contacts.

Op can you clarify what it is your pissed off about? I read it that you don't think the class should have to isolate because of the parents "followed the rules" then No one would even know the child had COVID.
Surely that isn't you reasoning? Can you not see how flawed that thinking is?

@TellerTuesday4EVA

So at least some of you understand the point I am trying to get across. There's now 14 days of all 30 children being at home even though they have all had contact as of last week when the contagiousness was higher so they've all been exposed already anyway.

Yes, but what about if x passed it to y and z, but not a, b or c. Y and z will now be in their most contagious time. If they stay home hopefully only y and z get it. If they go to school maybe they then go on to pass it to a and b this week.

Not every child will pick it up from child x.
But if just one other child caught it, by returning to school as normal that second child can then pass it on further, and so the chain continues.

@Oblomov20

"who then pass it to their grandparents "

Eh?

No one is supposed to be seeing their grandparents atm. In lockdown. And you wouldn't see your grandchildren if you were that vulnerable , would you?

So that doesn't really apply?

I'm a grandparent who sees her grandchild. I live alone, so am bubbled with my daughter's household. Other grandparents are allowed to do some childcare.

In Ireland if you are a close contact like that you are tested twice in the 14 days.

@AppleAndPearss

I get what you mean op. Parent should have never got child tested as they had no symptoms. Parents must have lied to get the test. So annoying now as bubble has to close and a class of children miss school for 2 weeks

No, that's not the case at all. Have you ever been called by T&T?

When I tested positive, all of my T&T contacts were asked by email and on the online if they would like to be tested, even if symptom free. They would b]not need to lie to be tested. They were given it as an option.

When I tested positive, all of my T&T contacts were asked by email and on the online if they would like to be tested, even if symptom free. They would b]not need to lie to be tested. They were given it as an option.

When my BIL tested positive we were all offered tests as well.

My teens and 10-year-old also do regular tests as part of a test research programme.

They may have also paid for a private test.

And yes they could of course pass it on to someone who got it badly, due to ore existing conditions, but surely that risk is low, because those people are largely choosing to 'shield', so the chances of passing it on are slim.

I am clinically vulnerable.
I am not shielding, only ECV shielded originally and right now it's voluntary and will be work dependent.
As CV you are not entitled to work from home, unless your work allows for it. Teaching doesn't.
As someone who is CV I was working right across my primary school, with no social distancing, no masks, etc.
There was no wfh option. I guess I could have resigned, but that's it.

I have now had covid. 5 weeks later and I am still off work.

There are many CV staff working in schools with no protection.

[quote Meuniere]****@GrapefruitsAreNotTheOnlyFruit**
A meta analysis so probably the best research wise you can find at the moment
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32562846/

Also a nice article on how asymptomatic people might be driving the epidemic
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7200054/

These came as the first answers from my quick research so there will be more I’m sure.[/quote]
The conclusion of the meta analysis states asymptomatic people MAY spread covid not DO spread covid. @GrapefruitsAreNotTheOnlyFruit is correct - we don’t have enough evidence yet and more research is needed. It appears that some viral shedding may occur before the onset of symptoms so technically the person could be spreading whilst “asymptomatic” but as @Grapefruits said, these are pre symptomatic rather than truly asymptomatic people.

The test is only around 70% reliable with a significant % of false negatives hence a negative test still means isolation if other criteria are met. Testing is even less reliable in asymptomatic people as they are very unlikely to be shedding viral particles at the level and rate needed to test positive.

It’s all a big fat mess and “the science” is not there yet. The child should not have been tested but they were and it was positive which changes things. Schools are in a really difficult position and people aren’t robots without feelings. I would imagine most parents who tested positive would want to know if their child has it just through instinct, even if it was not “the rules”.

So annoying now as bubble has to close and a class of children miss school for 2 weeks

So you'd rather a Covid positive child was back in school, passing it on to staff and other children - children who would likely be asymptomatic so still going shopping etc??? Unbelievable.
And regardless of what the guidance says online, people I know who have tested positive have been told to have their household tested. No lying to get tests at all .

[quote falcon5]Here's another one European Centre for disease control scroll down mid page on the role of Asymptomatic spread: www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/latest-evidence/transmission[/quote]
I just read it. It is clear that presymptomatic transmission is taking place. That's why people need to have the contacts traced for the previous few days. It isn't so clear cut about asymptomatic transmission. This is what the article you posted had to say about it.

Asymptomatic transmission (i.e. when the infector has no symptoms throughout the course of the disease), is difficult to quantify. Available data, mainly derived from observational studies, vary in quality and seem to be prone to publication bias [34,43]

Actually on the test ordering system you can have a test if you have been in contact with someone with the virus so the parents did the right thing

[quote Quaagars]@Usernamenotavailabl

What makes you so solute someone “would” be really ill from it
If the kid hadn’t been tested no one would ever know. There is no way on earth other kids in the class haven’t had it before this kid was tested and no one (as far as OP has said) has been really ill as a resul

I said could, not would.
She could have passed it onto someone unwittingly who could have been really ill with it.
Ignorance is bliss right?
Long as you don''t know, it's alright?
Or something....
Some of these replies are just gobsmacking, and I'm not one to get paranoid about the rona usually.[/quote]
You said would. Re read your own post

@Oblomov20

"who then pass it to their grandparents "

Eh?

No one is supposed to be seeing their grandparents atm. In lockdown. And you wouldn't see your grandchildren if you were that vulnerable , would you?

So that doesn't really apply?

People live with their grandparents

Grandparents provide wrap-around childcare.

Grandparent is in a support bubble as they live alone.

Lots of ways children can interact with their grandparents.

The OP is unbelievable! Aren’t you unbelievably grateful that the chain of transmission has a much better chance of being broken by the child getting a positive test at an earlier stage than they otherwise might have?

It’s a screwed system because if the parents hadn’t got their child tested against guidelines then none of the other children’s parents would know they’ve been exposed and would still be going about their daily lives. Some of them, possibly being carriers. Thank goodness they were cautious rulebreakers and did.

@Moneypenny007

In Ireland if you are a close contact like that you are tested twice in the 14 days.

@Moneypenny007 I think it depends on last time of contact with positive case.My 5 year old was last in contact with the positive case on Friday. School notified us next Wednesday night, he got tested on Thursday and result Friday. So he didn't get tested twice because by the time his result came he was 7 days post contact. But my neighbors kid got tested 2 days post contact, result at 4 days and another at 13 days post contact.

@Oblomov20

I understand your frustration.

If child x was asymptomatic then their case clearly isn't that bad. And yes they could of course pass it on to someone who got it badly, due to ore existing conditions, but surely that risk is low, because those people are largely choosing to 'shield', so the chances of passing it on are slim. And if everyone who gets covid is asymptomatic, then at least they aren't unwell!

Plus if child x was contagious, then they were most contagious a long time ago, 3-5 days before they developed symptoms (which child x didn't!) or at least way before mum hit child x tested.

Do all those who she gave it to, 'contaminated' are also asymptomatic. Or else they'd be mid to late/nearly over covid 14 days period by now. Becoming less and less contagious every day, especially after day 7.

So one has to question what the point is, and how effective it is, to isolate the whole bubble. It's disruptive, and achieves often very little.

And you don't want every bubble, in every year group, in every school, being isolated every 2 weeks.

No one minds if it is necessary. Or effective. But when you are questioning how necessary. And effective, it is. One really has to question whether this could be better managed?

The only better way to better manage this is to close schools completely, surely. Any other suggestions? I suppose it would help if it was law for everyone in a household where there's a suspected case to get tested to pick up asymptomatic cases. Yes it will inconvenience a lot of people when it turns out there are asymptomatic cases and maybe it's closing the stable door after the horse has bolted but surely this is better than burying your head in the ground because you don't want to be inconvenienced or the other end of the spectrum and closing schools completely?

Sorry I meant their kid getting tested twice. I dont know how the schools are working as our kids were out before I tested positive.
If the parents are positive then the kids get tested regardless of symptoms here. I was borderline close contact and requested to get tested. I came back positive on my second test.... negative on the first. Still never had any symptoms.

By locking down the entire bubble, they’re preventing any further spread.
You can’t say ‘oh well, the kids were playing together for a few days last week before the test, so let them carry on’! There is a chance some kids (and staff!) in the bubble are now incubating the virus, but some won’t be. The longer they all spend together, the more chance there would have been to infect more and more.

Be grateful for the responsible parents!

OP your child could have it. They pass it on to you. You pass it on to a work colleague who passes it on to their partner who passes it onto their colleague who passes it onto someone on the bus who passes it onto to their child who passes it on to their bubble at a different school.

If that happens a few times over thousands of people could become infected.

By getting their child tested that family have reduced the chance of transmission which is a good thing for us all.