He can thcream and thcream until he’s sick but the US has taken its future back (Trump thread #112)

[TheNorthWestPawsage]

They’ve only been and gone and done it.
Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4072116--Trump-thread-No-111-and-the-count-goes-on?pg=10

*votes from dead people.

One letter there makes a lot of difference.

BTW, if you want to put this into context with how this affects the UK, then Johnson is interesting.

Johnson has played the role of 'Yes Man' to Trump rather than being identical to him. Johnson now finds himself in the position where he has to fumble about to save his own neck much like the Trump inner circle. So I don't agree with the assessment that he is exactly like Trump.

Johnson himself has definitely surrounded himself with far too many yes men too. But the dynamics are different here and he DOES have a lot of people around him telling him blunt home truths. And unlike Trump who just bulldosers forward regardless of everything, Johnson is indecisive and prone to not quite knowing his own mind. He doesn't go on gut instinct alone. He considers options (even if he doesn't understand what he's being told fully) and his pattern of behaviour is of uturn after uturn rather being unwilling to concede that he's made mistakes. He spins these mistakes more to his advantage instead.

Johnson tends to be much more of an opportunist jumping on the lastest passing bandwagon that looks attractive rather than a carbon copy of Trump for that reason.

Thats both good and bad for the UK. It makes Johnson untrustworthy and easy to manipulate (Both traits similar to Trump). But it also gives a degree of flexibility to change course and to try and reinvent. Its more reflective and responsive. (This is both good and bad).

Johnson ultimately does what is best for Johnson first and foremost. But he's in an increasingly difficult position on multiple fronts with Brexit, Covid and now a complete change in the dynamics of world politics which now leave him isolated. He's facing an economic disaster which is potentially deeper than anywhere else in the world as a result. He's in trouble and in very weak position.

It will be fascinating to see how he can squirm his way out of this, but I think there will be a growing sense that he won't be the asset he was to the Tory party and is now growing increasingly toxic. And there are people willing to capitalise on that for their own political ambitions...

QAnon types everywhere, Asking. They've been popping up on MN too, but MNHQ are pretty good at deleting them when reported

AskingQuestions
I'm not sure why they are so stressed about dead people.
Dead people have been elected to office in the USA before

Agree re Johnson Red. I think his plan was always to swan off after he "delivered Brexit", leaving someone else to deal with the resultant shitstorm.

However, I think his departure won't be at a time of his choosing.

Thanks for that long but very interesting post RedToothBrush

I'm waiting for the lawsuit dump this morning. Assuming courts open at 9am we should start hearing about them in a couple of hours.

Oh, those two guys with the 'fake ballot van' sound like something straight out of Dumb and Dumber.

DH is so looking forward to being able to watch Chris Hayes and Rachel Maddow again with his blood pressure hitting the roof.

Michael Spicer, four seasons total landscaping local ad
twitter.com/mrmichaelspicer/status/1325786971915038723?s=21

Wondering if the good news on the Pfizer vaccine will bring Trump out of his bunker to proclaim himself as saviour of the world.

Yup, a dead republican was elected to state legislature in ?one of the Dakotas . He died in october but his name was still on the ballot

The UK and US contrasts are worth making, especially around 'personality' based politics. It's been implicit here that "the party" and manifesto policies are bigger than any individual and that the state apparatus, here the Civil Service, executes under the political will/direction of the governing party of the day from Westminster. As such Boris can be a complete arse but there is no suggestion of absolute power - you know the 22 committee or other groups are busy continuing to plot the success of the Party, not an individual, and he will be manoeuvred out if and when expedient.(possibly quite soon). It's a degree of self-regulation albeit somewhat Machiavellian. That's what feels terrifyingly missing here. I cannot fathom how and why senior Republicans are allowing these rabid witterings and that jawdropping post- election press conference to happen unless they are letting Trump hang himself. His conduct is a national embarrassment and brings the Office into disrepute, yet all the coverage is about who is being sent into the rabid lion's den, one by one, dangling a juicy steak in order to reason with him.....where are the crack team of marksmen with tranquilliser darts? I get that the Party is dependent on the support of Trumpians, and presumably need them to secure the Senate via the Michigan campaign but are they really proposing indulging Trump's behaviour until January?

This is a curse that effects nearly all autocratic leaders or dictators

Almost hints of Saddam Hussein.
And Comical Ali.

All smoke and screens, denying defeat till the end, and will probably be found in a bunker.

I was also wondering about that BoreOfWhabylon. People are currently being hugely optimistic about this but if the promise does turn into reality, it could make an enormous difference during the coming year. Which would mean that Coronavirus blighted Trump's last year in office and will provide a massive boost to Biden's first.

Surely those who are forever looking for the Hand of God will find this rather eye-catching.

@BoreOfWhabylon

Wondering if the good news on the Pfizer vaccine will bring Trump out of his bunker to proclaim himself as saviour of the world.

It would be very Trump to try to claim the credit for a vaccine to fix the problem that he said didn't really exist. So he'll have tweeted it by nightfall.

However, back in the world of conspiracy nutters, they'll now be going after Pfizer for withholding the good news until after polling day so that in yet another way Trump's victory was stolen.

Maybe they did. And could you blame them?

Surely those who are forever looking for the Hand of God will find this rather eye-catching.

Indeed, but it can be spun either way to credit Trump or Biden.

The main thing is though that we are now getting some good news after four bloody awful years

1. Trump is on his way out
2. Vaccine on its way in
3. ?

Just waiting for Boris to announce a U turn on deal with EU (he's called a presser at 5pm but I know it's more likely to be about the vaccine)

The CEO of Pfizer will not want to take any phone calls from Trump today

Or any day!

Think the presser was announced before the vaccine news? So I expect to be about a new U turn, sorry fab new development, on a deal with the EU.

@PullTheBricksDown

Or any day!

Think the presser was announced before the vaccine news? So I expect to be about a new U turn, sorry fab new development, on a deal with the EU.

The UK government seem to have had fair warning about the vaccine being almost ready. It was all over the press last week about how the Department for Health were about to release a directive telling GPs and other health bodies to get ready for the roll out of the vaccine in December. It wasn't certain but they had a good idea. I would expect the government to have had wind of it before any public announcement today tbh given how its such a crucial thing to the country and we are in a national emergency. Talk was that the month long lockdown was only announced because they had a fair idea that we were that close to a vaccine.

DH and I were musing last night that Trump can’t do “scorched earth” on his own as he doesn’t have the nous and he certainly hasn’t been taking notes over the last 4 years. So it does make sense that he is more likely to be mostly glove puppet and not hand.

And.. Has anyone heard from Pence? What does his daily timetable show? (Apart from spreading covid)

"The 2020 presidential contest is “the most secure election in U.S. history,” acting Department of Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf said, while urging voters to be patient for results and rely on trusted sources of information."

From the WSJ.

How long till he's fired too?

If I was Pence I'd be plotting with McConnell to apply the 25th Ammendment right now.

@BruceAndNosh

Biden needs to take #MAGA and improve it. What about MAKE AMERICA WHOLE AGAIN? or something slicker?

Make US Whole Again, with an anthem by Atomic Kitten.