To think his parents are miserable bastards for not buying anything for the DC/DGC on birthdays and Christmas?

[ItsBeginningToLookAl0tLikeFuck]

My other halfs parents have never bought our DC birthday cards, presents or so much as a selection box at Christmas (they are long since divorced and live miles apart so are both guilty of this in equal measure)

They don't even give OH a birthday card and he's their son

OH has two lovely older DC from his previous marriage and they get sod all aswell.

OH said the last time he received a gift from his parents was when he was a teenager still living at home. Apparently they just don't "do" presents or cards, or phonecalls to wish anybody a happy birthday, or 99p selection boxes at Christmas

I'm not a grabby person, I think a selection box at Christmas and a card on birthdays would be more than enough and well received. It would certainly make the DC happy.

AIBU to think they are miserable bastards and not very kind?

With regard to giving FIL money, it's such a deeply ingrained sense of responsibility to OH that me asking him to stop, will put him in a very uncomfortable position.

He has been doing it since I met him.

I'm not sure why FIL needs to borrow so often when he's on twice the salary but tbh he does often have cash flow problems.

OH will think nothing of lending him £50-70 when he's down to his last £100.

If they are consistent and no-one gets birthday or Christmas cards, their choice.

If FIL doesn't "do" Christmas or birthdays then why is he happy to receive gifts and cards? Why is he coming over to celebrate Christmas at your house? Same for MIL.

I think this is where I would really, really put my foot down with DH. No more gifts and cards. None. If your in laws can't make any effort to so much as wish someone a happy birthday or write a card then don't do it for them.

Presents aren't necessary but it's very bad mannered to turn up on Christmas Day with your hand out to the hosts to feed you and give you a gift whilst having nothing in return.

On a manners point alone this would be the bill I choose to die on.

I had an interesting experience regarding cards on my birthday once at work. Everyone threw the cards in my desk, not one showed any real interest except to ask where the cakes were. When I said I'd brought chocolates in instead the said 'but we want cakes'.
The cards were meaningless and despite the fact they had bought one for me they actually didn't give a shit. I would rather not have had anything of them.
My husband and family often as what I want for birthdays and Christmas, L never want anything but they always say 'well i have to get you something its......' I'm like 'why?' just wish me happy birthday etc'

I hate the pressure of gifting. I hate the expectation of it, that it has to be done because well its a birthday/Christmas. Best ones I've had or bought for others were random and occasional because I saw the gift and thought of the person it was for and they've been genuinely delighted by it and vise versa.

I do think gifting and carding has lost its true sentiment because its just whats done and what people do. You can give all the gifts in the world but if you don't give the recipient your care/kindness/thought in other ways it's just stuff and I think its wrong to associate stuff with care/kindness etc, that stuff really can't be bought.

**hill

I think people who choose to ignore children in this way are emotionally as well as financially mean.
It's not usually about the value of a gift, but it is about the thoughtlessness. My PIL have always been financially very generous but had zero imagination or empathy for any of their grandchildren. The kids noticed and it has made them feel less valued. They would have so appreciated something with a little thought and love behind it.
YANBU OP.

Why does someone have to show their ‘love’ through token gifts or cards?

You want him to give the kids a selection box? That’s hardly thoughtful. Why would you want your kids to learn that they should expect a gift?

Surely the fact that he spends time with them and gives them his attention is more important?

I say this as someone who stresses about present buying and often over gifts for fear of not looking like I care enough. I also hate receiving gifts and would rather have nothing.

Why does someone have to show their ‘love’ through token gifts or cards?

Because it's a nice thing to do.

@ItsBeginningToLookAl0tLikeFuck
I wonder how he would respond if one of the DC asked him outright why they don't get anything on Xmas or birthdays.
Probably that they're bloody rude and that it reflects badly on you.
My family all give gifts, however, noone is obligated.

My husband’s mother doesn’t do much either. Even when he was just a child he’d mostly get ‘IOUs’. So he doesn’t expect anything now and we don’t really bother in return.
I wouldn’t waste energy on thinking about it to be fair.

Surely the fact that he spends time with them and gives them his attention is more important?

I see your point, however I feel his main motivation when he comes is borrowing money and seeing the children whilst here is just a bonus.

Why does someone have to show their ‘love’ through token gifts or cards?

Because it's a nice thing to do.

You don't need to give gifts to be nice. Why not just be nice, spend time with them and show your interest in them? Gifts can't do this at all, you as the giver may feel your being nice but the recipient will just see stuff, nice to them as actually you giving your time, interest in them, practical help, making them laugh, support when their down. None of this costs money and is utterly priceless, all the well intended gifts and cards will never make up for this. Trust me!!!!

OP, I don’t think you are grabby at all, FIL is. He is happy to take money from you and DH, depriving your family of it, even though his income is twice as much. I think you and DH should have a proper talk about why he is expected to bail his father out financially. This sounds like financial abuse. I wouldn’t want someone like that around my DC.

This year tell FIL you are not doing presents for adults and that includes cash. Does he gamble or use drugs, or is he just enjoying living beyond his means?

FIL definitely doesn't do drugs and he doesn't drink, he's tee total.

However I am aware he used to gamble alot, according to OH he would spend alot of time in the bookies when he was young.

I don't know whether he gambles now, my gut would say no but I don't know for certain.

His mortgage is alot cheaper than our rent and he gets 2 x the salary OH gets. His partner also earns more than I do so in theory they should be much better off.

He doesn't smoke anymore or splash on luxuries. It's baffling.

He has had some time off work lately, granted, but this has been a theme for years long before the pandemic.

YANBU, my Dad is like this. He’s never bought my DC a present or card. Instead he sends a free e-card which he sets up to arrive in my inbox shortly after midnight on everyone’s birthday. We all get the same e-card too, it’s a shitty little penguin dancing. I just laugh about it now, it’s the easiest way to deal with how crap he is.

Some people just don't do gifts and cards. My on December doesn't get a card or gift from my mum and dad. Who cares.

I agree with the grabbyness. In the grand scheme of things, it really really does not matter.

On = Ds

@Tootsey11

Some people just don't do gifts and cards. My on December doesn't get a card or gift from my mum and dad. Who cares.

I agree with the grabbyness. In the grand scheme of things, it really really does not matter.

But it's not about the gifts themselves. It's about what they represent. No gift = I don't think about you much and you don't matter to me enough to spend time or money on.

My ILs this year didn't send DD a gift, and didn't even mention it. But when they sent DS his gift a few months later they included hers in the box.

Message = we forgot about your birthday and couldn't be bothered to even phone to say so and/or your brothers birthday is important to us but yours, not so much.

Its not grabby - an E-card can be sent for free, a phone call or text takes just time etc...

Its a lack of effort, time and care and exactly what a deadbeat does and I wouldnt waste time on them (when they want stuff) if they refuse to give even seconds of their time back

Relationships are 2 ways, if they arent then let it die because no kid misses the family member who never made an effort to be apart of their life

OH will think nothing of lending him £50-70 when he's down to his last £100.

So DH is taking family money to fund his father? He should be bloody made to feel uncomfortable, this needs to stop!

But a birthday is just another day, that's it. I buy my son things on his birthday, I don't expect anyone else to. If they do, great, if they don't fair enough.

What one person finds important in life, is not important to another and Op has to accept that.

She doesn't have to like it though!

I would feel sad for what it says about my kids' extended family relationships. I grew up close to my GPS and I'd feel really sad for my kids not to have the same experience.

A guy who only comes around to borrow money is terrible, let alone being miserable with gift giving. The gift giving feels like it's an easier thing to be mad about, but that treatment needs sorting.

I completely agree with Milssofadoesntreallyfit Many 'token nice gestures' can become shite when there isn't actual care or consideration behind it. There are plenty of other ways to show such things that are just as nice and plenty of ways to use gifts to make someone feel like the shit on their shoes.

No gift = I don't think about you much and you don't matter to me enough to spend time or money on.

And gifts can come across as 'here, I've fulfilled my obligation to social appearances and spent money on you, now be grateful by...' when it has no other thought. Been there, had that my entire childhood. I'd rather no gift than one someone felt they needed to get because it's a particular day and/or there are others around to see it.

Do you know what, I'd have had a completely different view on this if I hadn't met my partner, but he is one who honestly doesn't care about things like Christmases and birthdays one bit.

Admittedly he does buy presents for his son, nephews and parents (and me to be fair) but he doesn't do cards, he doesn't want gifts himself, and he never wants to do anything for his birthday. He only buys gifts because he knows it's more important to some people.

He's a happy, outgoing and kind person - just doesn't see the point in gift giving on specific days. If there's something I want, or his son wants, he'll buy it for us whenever it is, not wait until birthdays or Christmas.

So I don't think you can look at just this one thing - look at what they're like in general as people, and not just what they give materialistically.

Your FIL gambles, be assured of that!