To think all those people calling the Welsh first minister a dictator can go eat their words...

[Allthestarsarecloser]

National lockdown looming next week:
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/30/save-christmas-with-covid-lockdown-in-england-experts-say

There have been several threads on here calling Mark Drakeford a dictator, slagging off the welsh firebreak lockdown, commenting on the rules in wales.

Not looking quite so stupid now is he?

Aibu to think that the tories who criticised him can go eat their words? Boris has been missing in action again during the worst crisis in living memory, test and trace has failed etc

A few points:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Nobody has to stick strictly to the point of your OP.
Nobody has been 'proved right'. Only time will tell whether the various measures taken by governments across the world, and their timings, were better or worse than others.

@lazylinguist well yes, but let’s see how many people pile in and call Boris a dictator and call for the abolition of a democratically elected government as a result shall we?

OP, you seem to be taking the comments about MD very personally. Is he your dad?!
Also, your posts do come across in an 'it's not enough that we succeed, everyone else must fail' gloaty way. England also going into lockdown doesn't prove anything except that England is going into lockdown. You have a weird sense of competition between England and Wales.
The lockdown is what it is. We are all obeying, in my family. I think the rules regarding what can be bought are very silly and unhelpful. If your child's wellies or raincoat suddenly get a hole you can't replace them to go out for a walk. You can't buy books for the kids. It's just a bit short sighted because it hasn't done anything to protect small businesses. It's just stopped supermarkets from selling items people want to conveniently pick up when they're out shopping anyway, rather than get another delivery in a van (sometimes coming from outside of Wales) from an online shop.

Nobody has been 'proved right'. Only time will tell whether the various measures taken by governments across the world, and their timings, were better or worse than others.

Exactly. The same action taken in different circumstances does not mean both were right.

let’s see how many people pile in and call Boris a dictator and call for the abolition of a democratically elected government as a result shall we?

Personally I think Boris is a very poor leader...but he has never placed any more restrictions than other leaders - in fact much less in many cases. Boris had a lot of criticism all the way through - far more than either the Welsh or Scottish governments. His disdain for them is obvious and embarrassing. But he does keep saying people should follow guidance and use common sense, and only imposes strict rules when it's obvious that they are needed (probably too late!). So I don't think he will be called a dictator. Indecisive, incompetent, uncaring yes.

@Ohtherewearethen no, I’m just welsh and hacked off with the weeks of shite in the media and on here slagging off how things are done in Wales when in England it’s a shit show. I am also hacked off with a lot of ‘abolish the assembly’ comments. It’s been a concerted attempt to undermine Wales (the same thing happens with Scotland too)

The thing is it's very hard to see the undercurrent of anti Welsh sentiment in the press/ online etc until you live it. I am english but when you live here for a few years you start to see that there is a lot of sly digs made constantly about the welsh people/ the senedd etc. English people do it about scottish and Irish people to. And it's been very prominent this year in regards to covid.

@Ginnymweasley exactly

[quote Allthestarsarecloser]@TeddyIsaHe my whole family is in wales and they all understood the rules. And that’s not the point of this thread as plenty has been said about the welsh rules.

This thread is pointing out that Drakeford was 1000% right & Boris is yet again missing in action, has failed & there’s another lockdown coming next week.[/quote]
How on earth can you say Drakeford was "1000% right" before we've learnt if the Welsh lockdown has had any effect on cases?

A month from now we could be looking at a 4x increase in cases in Wales due to people mixing more in houses during lockdown because they weren't allowed to meet outside, or people being so happy when it ends or so afraid of another lockdown that they go to pubs/shops etc more than they otherwise would....we just don't know yet so saying he was right before you know if it's worked is ridiculous!

"As with many things, the attacks on the WG are deliberate and designed to undermine the democracy of another nation."
What about those of us who are Welsh? Are we deliberately undermining the democracy of our own nation by disagreeing with the policies of a man who was never actually elected to his position?

[quote Allthestarsarecloser]@MushMonster well yes but Drakeford wrote to Boris 3 times in the run up to this firebreak to ask him to put in travel restrictions but he didn’t reply. Westminster have zero respect for the devolved nations at all. Boris even stated he was going to override the decision of the WG to build a road in South Wales- something that would bring a legal challenge.

As with many things, the attacks on the WG are deliberate and designed to undermine the democracy of another nation.[/quote]
If it wasnt for the funding from Westminster, Wales would be fucked.

Wales wanted devolution - so fuck off and do one.

@thevassal well I am welsh too. Let’s see what happens shall we- my point is though that had Boris actually fucking listened rather than berating the WG and taken on board that a circuit break lockdown could have helped, there wouldn’t be a prospect of a month long lockdown in England now

@FartingInTheFence funnily enough welsh people do pay taxes too you know. I fully support welsh independence so would love to just ‘fuck off and do one’ frankly

So you perceive some slight from the English against the Welsh and counteract that by being actively anti English in return?

As a welsh person I supported the lockdown but I didn't support the ban on non essentials. I think partly as it was so short notice, it was a complete afterthought. Also while I supported the lockdown and I support trying the idea that we need to keep schools open, I felt that given they wanted a drastic short lockdown that schools should have closed for the second week. Plus that they should have stayed open for GCSE students rather than the other way around.

Frankly everyone is just trying to show each other up and I'm and a lot of people are getting sick of it. The situation is a mess and the division isn't helping anyone.

I support the welsh short lockdown but I wish they were brave enough to of maximised the restrictions and included schools. This situation has made me lose a lot of faith, things like the idea that Halloween and fireworks were banned (which I get) but remembrance days is fine, I feel fireworks was more open to social distancing than remembrance and that's not to minimise the significance of the day, I get it, but all those people who say old are out before young, I suddenly get it, but for different reasons maybe.

My Nana died yesterday, Covid, she went into hospital with non Covid issues, got Covid and died, she was in her 90s, it's changed my perspective because the reality is was was 94 and old, anything would have killed her off, she has been in her bed for years now, so yes she died of Covid but her age and condition was the biggest factor.

Mark hasn't received any more critique than that Boris has or any other British politician has.

Secondly, it was intended to stop supermarkets having a monopoly to protect non essential shops that have had to close - those posters who have complained at the losses to small businesses but at the same time rushed out to buy online because they cannot wait for two weeks really don't have a coherent argument in my opinion.

The criticism hasn't so much been people saying they'd do this themselves, rather that it's inevitably going to happen on a population level. Which is true.

There were various posts from people saying they couldn't see why purchases couldn't just wait a fortnight until the shops reopened, which I'm sure made them feel righteous, but meanwhile lots of people had a choice to buy on Amazon etc instead, and some of them did. I speak as someone who boycotts Amazon and who has a loved one working in one of those non-essential shops who worries for her livelihood, to put my cards on the table here.

* So PO - once again - you are not being unreasonable. Mark Drayford is not a dictator, nor should he have been called one. He followed the advice of SAGE, and now it seems that Boris is going to do the same - nearly two weeks too late.*

^This with bells on. BoJo is always too late with any actions he takes.

Honestly, I think it was a case of EVERYONE knowing that a short sharp firebreak was needed over half term, as this was the advice of the scientific advisors. Boris etc chose to ignore that for economic reasons- not to keep the working public in pocket, but to keep the profits rolling in for their super rich mates. This meant rhat the devolved nations needed to bw undermined , which the papers (also run by their mates) duly did.

The papers have sone a good job of slanting biews against devolved governments who followed scientific advice.

Its a real shame that the boat was missed by England for an effevrive short sharp lockdown.

@FartingInTheFence can’t even be arsed to respond to you post apart from to say you are exactly the reason why movements like Yes Cymru are so fast growing.

You don't have to look far for anti welsh sentiment do you..... cause welsh people must just forget all of their history and just become english people and abide by english rules and thinking. They are not pseudo countries they are countries that were invaded and take over by another country. So disrespectful to call them parasites. I'm sure you will never use any welsh produce, go on holiday to wales etc as it's such a horrible country?

@Ginnymweasley you can see it on here loud and clear

Not RTFT but in Ireland we’re doing a six week lockdown to try and get the numbers down. It’s harsh on businesses and affecting thousands of workers but we need to get the numbers down so frontline workers and hospitals can cope. Personally I can’t understand how lax it seems to be in England (I have plenty of friends living there and talk about it). It is compulsory here to wear a mask in shops and in open areas of shopping centres. There are people who break rules and have house parties but fines have been introduced now to discourage this.

[quote Allthestarsarecloser]@lazylinguist well yes, but let’s see how many people pile in and call Boris a dictator and call for the abolition of a democratically elected government as a result shall we?[/quote]
If he stops me being able to buy baby clothes, I will be!

@Allthestarsarecloser it's horrible and welsh people really shouldn't have to put up with it. I love living in wales and honestly can't see myself moving back at all.
What people fail to see is that in all this "Westminster subsidise wales" crap, is that Westminster have actually done very little to help industry in wales. Westminster cares about england but mainly they care about london.

@Igotthemheavyboobs common misconception but baby clothes actually were always deemed essential. The govt have a handy document that explains it all.