Everyone invited but dd - am I being U?

[Ihaveyourback]

DD (12) started secondary school last year, she found a great group of five girls pretty much on the first day and they hang out every day at school. DD stayed in touch and her friends came over for sleepovers, dinner, they did loads of things together (mainly at our house I may add) etc over the summer after the lockdown, the girls get on very well and all is good. DD noticed that 'Zara' one of the girls was playing two of the girls off against each, and they were vying a little for her attention. No big deal - these things happen between girls.

Fast forward to last week. We booked an activity for this group of friends over the half term and invited them all - dd missed out on her birthday party over lockdown so I had promised her a treat. We then found out that Zara had already booked the activity for her birthday, and she sent dd lots of messages via SM saying she was going with laughing emojis and that dd could still go ahead with her day but they would all be 'pros' as they would have more practice due to her party.

It turns out that Zara has invited the whole group except for dd.

There was not a problem with numbers as we are still allowed six here, so she invited other girls that she never sees and hardly knows over dd - whom she considers to be a very close friend.

DD was very so hurt and cried for a few days. It put me in a terrible position as we had already invited the others girls to the activity including Zara.

Zara is entitled to choose whoever she likes for her party, of course, and if she does not want dd to come then that is fine, however the endless messaging boasting about the girls all going, how fun it was going to be, how much they would be than dd was abit much, and seemed to me quite spiteful.

Zara's Mum meanwhile having accepted the invite, then declined because they were away - so this seemed like a solution, but then she called me to say Zara was so upset not to go with dd could she please be included again, knowing full well Zara had invited everyone but my dd!!!
By this point I was absolutely tired of the messages to dd from Zara, the calls from her mother and cancelled the activity with an excuse that we couldn't make it.

DD now wants to have a sleepover, she wants to invite her friends and definitely does not want to invite Zara who she no longer considers a friend anymore. I don't feel we owe this girl anything.

What do you think? Am I being unreasonable not to invite Zara? I am obviously keen to avoid any further upset but I am really upset for dd.

[Ddot]

Just bullying by the back door, dont invite zara If her mom gets in touch explain about the texts. Or ask your daughter what she wants to do

[looselegs]

Have the sleepover.
Don't invite Zara. Your daughter doesn't want her there and us quite prepared to deal with the fall out. She's an insecure, manipulative madam and I wouldn't give her house room! If she gets invited she'll just find something else to spoil.
Had it for years with my daughter at school- many insecure, entitled little madams who thought they could rule the roost.

[Watermelon999]

@Ihaveyourback

You are right, there is no excuse for excluding one child from a friendship group from a gathering, it is a form of bullying. I blame the parent as well for allowing it.

We had the same with our dd when after being told she was invited to the party/activity by the birthday girl, she was then told she couldn’t as there was not enough room in the car. It was just an excuse to leave her out. They then sent her photos of them all having fun and a sleepover captioned “best friends”. I would challenge anyone not to be affected by that, we would as adults.

[Ddot]

I had it at 40years of age at work, back fired on them in the end, I just got on with my thing and ignored them. Killed me on the inside but I have a life outside of work. Dont think they did.

[Ddot]

I was accused of bullying but I'd kept a diary, turned out I could prove I was the one being bullied

[catnoir1]

I had this at high school. It was my "turn" to have the horrible treatment, it went on for months and I ended up in a psychiatric unit for treatment.

[Ginger1982]

[quote GrumblyMumblyisnotJumbly]@Ginger1982 also want to say that I hate it when my children have to pick friends for their birthday activities as they have fairly wide groups of friends. If it could be the case I would want to invite each and every one of their friends but sometimes the activity dictates fewer. This happens throughout life, even as adults, we just learn to do invitations discreetly. This is where social media doesn’t help as what people do in groups is now displayed for others to see.[/quote]
I'm not talking about not being invited to a party as one sole incident. I'm talking about systemic bullying from one teen to another which, at that age, invariably means exclusion, gossiping, put downs etc. It's so much more than missing out on one party. As I said, clearly you have never experienced how lonely and upsetting it can be in that situation particularly when, like me, you feel you can't tell your parents.

So no, I wouldn't cut someone off for not inviting me to their party but I hope if my child starts to experience some of what I did I would be a lot more sympathetic than you're coming off as.

[GrumblyMumblyisnotJumbly]

@Ihaveyourback

grumbly I am not sure why you find it so difficult to understand why a friend may be hurt that they were excluded from the party, additionally to have to tolerate the SM bragging about it and boasting about it too, I would not look at that friend in the same light, no. For me (and dd) friendship is about trust, honesty and kindness. If any of those elements are missing then the friendship doesn't tend to work out.

I can only assume you have left your children's friends out of parties in the past and are looking to excuse your own behaviour. I don't find it compassionate or kind to do that, and would not allow my children to hurt others in that way under any circumstances. I would rather not have the party!

Resilience should be fostered in children, unkindness should not. There is a difference between the two.

@Ihaveyourback I have already said in previous posts I quite understand that your daughter now doesn't regard Zara as a close (or kind) friend and wants to cool their friendship. It is horrible when our children are hurt by other peoples actions.

I can only assume you have left your children's friends out of parties in the past and are looking to excuse your own behaviour.

Your assumption is wrong and rude. I would never ever leave one person out from a party i.e. in the days of class parties everyone would get an invitation. However, my children have a lot of friends and so there will have been occasions when they wouldn't have been able to invite all their friends e.g if they were having a sleepover they would need to pick 3 or 4 rather than 15 if they went bowling. Honestly do you invite everyone you know each time you have friends for dinner? Or would you rather never have a dinner party because you have to limit numbers?

[cannotchange]

My DD is in year 8 and had been experiencing this since year 6.

She is quite strong willed but is gradually being worn down by it and now has low self- esteem to the point where I have recently found out that she was being verbally and physically bullied by her latest friend - she was just so despite for a friend that would take the bullying that went with it and being used, for various reasons, by this friend as well.

She is no longer friends with this girl, but is dreading going into school tomorrow - she feels like she doesn't have anyone to hang out with and isn't part of a friendship group

[GrumblyMumblyisnotJumbly]

@Ginger1982 sorry to hear you had a hard time as a teenager.

So no, I wouldn't cut someone off for not inviting me to their party but I hope if my child starts to experience some of what I did I would be a lot more sympathetic than you're coming off as.

But that is what has happened in this case, one party invitation hasn't been extended (at a time when Covid IS restricting numbers) understandably the OPs daughter is upset about it as she saw her as a close friend, of course that's not a nice feeling. If the OP had come on here and talked about Zara behaving in an unkind way for days, weeks or months my response would have been very different.

[GrumblyMumblyisnotJumbly]

Having said that I have just read the OPs initial post back

Zara is entitled to choose whoever she likes for her party, of course, and if she does not want dd to come then that is fine, however the endless messaging boasting about the girls all going, how fun it was going to be, how much they would be than dd was abit much, and seemed to me quite spiteful

Yes not inviting her is something you accept happens rubbing her nose in it is horrible behaviour.

[ScrumptiousBears]

My DD 6 has a Zara already. I will also look at the book that's been recommended as I feel I have many more years of this yet.

[SaltandPepperIt]

@cannotchange

My DD is in year 8 and had been experiencing this since year 6.

She is quite strong willed but is gradually being worn down by it and now has low self- esteem to the point where I have recently found out that she was being verbally and physically bullied by her latest friend - she was just so despite for a friend that would take the bullying that went with it and being used, for various reasons, by this friend as well.

She is no longer friends with this girl, but is dreading going into school tomorrow - she feels like she doesn't have anyone to hang out with and isn't part of a friendship group

your poor DD, that is ruddy heartbreaking, so hard for you both to cope with. I really hope tomorrow goes ok.

[Ddot]

one liner to use, works for when someone having great things happen, it's a nice thing to say and when someone being nasty and rubbing your face init. GOOD FOR YOU! Tell your daughter when zara starts boasting to just say it and walk away.

[seayork2020]

I would say at 12 your child is old enough to decide what she wants to do and do not engage in any drama on her behalf

[Mummyoflittledragon]

@cannotchange

My DD is in year 8 and had been experiencing this since year 6.

She is quite strong willed but is gradually being worn down by it and now has low self- esteem to the point where I have recently found out that she was being verbally and physically bullied by her latest friend - she was just so despite for a friend that would take the bullying that went with it and being used, for various reasons, by this friend as well.

She is no longer friends with this girl, but is dreading going into school tomorrow - she feels like she doesn't have anyone to hang out with and isn't part of a friendship group

Poor girl. My dd is in the same year. Your dd needs to feel safe in school. In your position I would be contacting the head of year at the school to inform them of what is / has been going on and getting pastoral care for her. Particularly anxious children / those, who don’t feel safe etc are given a “card”, which they can use to automatically released from class and go to a “safe” area or go to see a pastoral lead. Idk what is available at your Dds school, but at my Dds school there were various lunchtime activities going on including those, specifically targeted at children having issues.

[aztecnik]

How awful are these girls? Are teenage boys like this?

I have a DD and I hope at that age that she keeps her head down at school and works hard as well as having a supportive group of friends who are just as enthusiastic about learning as she is.

[Itsallpointless]

@cannotchange I'm in my fifties, what you describe happened to me way back. It's had an effect on my life. However, I hVe never been bullied I adult life, but I'm very defensive. Nip it in the bud and make your little girl feel safe and secure

[Mummyoflittledragon]

@Ddot

one liner to use, works for when someone having great things happen, it's a nice thing to say and when someone being nasty and rubbing your face init. GOOD FOR YOU! Tell your daughter when zara starts boasting to just say it and walk away.

I agree with this. People, who can shut others down aren’t targeted. Recently dd (12) was right fighting over texts and voice messages with a couple of friends. These 2 friends are quite fiery and seem to fabricate fights out of thin air... Then minutes later they’re friends again. I know it’s just letting off steam, the issue is more that not everyone, including dd doesn’t work like this and generally hates arguments.

The last spat started this time because dd called these 2 friends out for leaving her out all week at school and then getting jealous / cross with dd for going off with a “popular” girl. It is good that she asserted a boundary but she then didn’t know how to stop fighting. I told her to shut it down and suggested “whatever”. She chose “idc” (I don’t care). Instantly stopped.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

@aztecnik

How awful are these girls? Are teenage boys like this?

I have a DD and I hope at that age that she keeps her head down at school and works hard as well as having a supportive group of friends who are just as enthusiastic about learning as she is.

Idk how old your dd is. I imagine younger than tween. I think you are in for a surprise. If you read my posts on this thread for context, mine is 12. The advice I would give you is to get prepared rather than hoping. Boys can be like this too but it seems in lesser numbers. It’s just hormones and angst. We all have these.

[Ihaveyourback]

cannot I second the pp that suggest you contact your dd's form tutor and head of year, they need to be supporting and helping your dd in school time. Ask your dd for a list of other nice girls in her class, and when you can invite them over for tea - or suggest a walk after school with an outdoor picnic - in coats of course. I found building up dd's other friends helped a great deal.

grumpy I am grateful for all points of view on the thread, but I have read a number of your posts really justifying Zara's actions. Perhaps read them yourself. You sound like you are defending her. Of course all views are welcome, but I don't agree with Zara's actions.

They are a group of 5 not 15, so numbers have never and will never be an issue for a party, a playdate or a sleepover. Of course they don't do everything together, they either tend to do things in 2s or invite the whole group. That has been the case since the beginning. I am sure no one would bat an eyelid at 3 even, but to invite the whole friendship group bar one is unacceptable. Particularly as they are very fond of posting it all endlessly all over the internet and talking about on a loop in school no doubt. So quite frankly I am sad for dd, and worried about her today additionally her closest friend is now in hospital, so I am doubly concerned as to how she will manage, she is very worried about her poorly friend - and the dynamics are not great at all, and def not stacked in her favour.

azt I think every girl goes through this at some point or another, I actually don't know of anyone that hasn't. I have the most laid back older dd and it is constant with her as well, although she cares a lot less and it washes over her most of the time, it is still happening. I would read up and be ready if I were you.

[RedskyAtnight]

@aztecnik

How awful are these girls? Are teenage boys like this?

I have a DD and I hope at that age that she keeps her head down at school and works hard as well as having a supportive group of friends who are just as enthusiastic about learning as she is.

I have a teen DD and a teen DS. The drama in DS's friendship group outweighs the drama in DD's by a factor of some 100s.

I suspect it's down to individuals, not to sex :)

[SaltandPepperIt]

How awful are these girls? Are teenage boys like this?

I have got multiples of both sexes and have to say with the boys it has been less drama in that they sort things out quicker and move on, even if that means they dont speak to them again. With the girls it has been hellish. Dragged on and brought up for years and others get involved and take sides.

I also work in a school and even though it may seem a big generalisation, this is what happens there too.

[cannotchange]

Thank you for all your kind comments.

My DD is friendly and outgoing -I sometimes wonder if jealousy plays a part. So many of these girls seem to be deeply insecure.

We have already seen the pastoral team at school due to other very serious bullying - threats of physical violence online amongst other things.

I believe the head of pastoral is judgemental and a gossip, so don't have much faith in the school. The school is supposed to be outstanding, but is far from it. The atmosphere is my DD's year is toxic and a number of children have left since year 7 owing to this and feeling isolated and lonely.

There have been some days where my DD is getting it from all angles, kids like to call her 'poor', if she doesn't have the right stuff,we are not poor. For example I bought her a really unusual leopard print Nike rucksack - everyone had told her it's a fake and she's poor so now she won't use it.

I could go on, but for my DD this runs a lot deeper than just a Zoe situation. Luckily my DD tells me everything so I know what's going on, it's so important for your children to be able to offload all of this to you. It would be terrible to think that all this stuff was going on and I didn't know about it

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

Sometimes a school overall is good but a cohort of students isn't.

Near me, there is a primary school that has had mostly rave reviews - yet I was talking to a mum who has just moved her child to our primary school from that other one, because her child was being mercilessly bullied and she would be stuck with them (small school) all the way up to y6 if she stayed there (she's only Y2 at the moment).
No issues at our school at all - MUCH happier. She was just unlucky to catch that cohort that she couldn't escape from.

Not saying that IS the case with your school, Cannotchange but it might be. Either way, it sucks for your DD and I hope you can find a way to help her through it.

Resilience only gets you so far - at secondary, it's harder to have parents step in but sometimes it's necessary. At primary I think parents should step in earlier though - I knew someone whose DD was seated between 2 other girls in class, and they were being utterly horrible to her - low grade bullying non-stop while the teacher couldn't hear - talking across her, about her, but never TO her. Stealing her stuff, tipping her pencil case and/or lunchbox out all the time. Talking about what they were going to do to her at break time. Lowgrade but like a tap dripping constantly. The poor child was at breaking point - her mother had left her to deal with it for "building resilience" but to me, that was a "step in and get her moved away from the little horrors" point, to show that Mum had her back. Which she did - Mum spoke to the teacher and her DD was move away from these 2, and it mostly stopped.

I don't think any school totally has it under control but some definitely have better ways to deal with it than others.