Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Family and money - help!

329 replies

notdawn · 24/10/2020 19:48

I will try and keep this as brief as possible - but really would like some candid advice.

Towards the end of last year my sister and her now ex husband wanted to put their house on the market. Before they did my husband offered them full asking of the agents valuation. In all honesty he probably slightly overpaid.

My husband is a property developer and even when they were together my husband made it clear that if they ever wanted to sell to give us first refusal. We own the house next door (we don't live there) and with the land there was always going be a fairly decent opportunity to develop.

Anyway as it was going through my sister started making comments about how much money we would be making from the deal. The truth is she had and has no idea how much money we will or wont make as she has no idea about building costs, planning costs, marketing costs etc - and I just put it down to her going through a divorce.

Anyway the build was on hold for a couple of months - but the flats where our houses once were will be going on the market Monday and she has been quite vocal about how much money we will make and how we couldn't have done it without her.

AIBU - I mean she wanted to sell her house and we gave her asking price?

We are very close, our kids are close, I am not sure why she is being like this. I suggested to my husband possibly a smallish payment once they are sold - but he is saying absolutely no way.

Thoughts?

OP posts:
Bluegrass · 25/10/2020 11:14

So far we’ve been told that the valuation was over the top (in your opinion) by £75k. You said you overpaid by 5/6%. You said you overpaid by about £100-120k.

Now you’re saying they got an extra £150k (which suggests the overall price was a couple of million). The values are all over the place, but ultimately you still only view this situation in terms of a financial transaction, not an emotional one.

RandomMess · 25/10/2020 11:14

I would have a heart the heart with her and talk to her how she feels emotionally about the house and having to move.

I would also run through the figures with her.

She got an extra £x

That after costs your DH/the company made £y but after his salary etc that only is£z

You need to include overheads the cost of borrowing the money to buy it etc.

You don't need to do any of this but I do think you need to dispel her myth that you've made more than double as she thinks...

Original poster
notdawn · 25/10/2020 11:17

@Bluegrass

So far we’ve been told that the valuation was over the top (in your opinion) by £75k. You said you overpaid by 5/6%. You said you overpaid by about £100-120k.

Now you’re saying they got an extra £150k (which suggests the overall price was a couple of million). The values are all over the place, but ultimately you still only view this situation in terms of a financial transaction, not an emotional one.

This isn’t really the point - but they aren’t.

Agents valued over by circa 75k off asking - then add one would have expected to have knocked 50-75 off the asking based on recent sales thats where the figure has come from.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 25/10/2020 11:19

Presumably they saved on EA fees too!!!

Original poster
notdawn · 25/10/2020 11:20

@RandomMess

Presumably they saved on EA fees too!!!
Yes - even at 1.5% that would have been a lot of money.
OP posts:
RandomMess · 25/10/2020 11:24

I think it's likely she does feel ripped off because she has no idea of the costs involved and has forgotten that they did get above asking. I think it's also mixed in with the divorce and moving house fall out.

I would get the figures worked out.

If you had paid more for the house her ex would have got half it...

Sad
mouseistrapped · 25/10/2020 11:28

This bit :
"my husband made it clear that if they ever wanted to sell to give us first refusal. "
Sounds like a demand!

I think if you made lots of money and you are close to your newly divorced sister it would be a nice gesture to give her a little slice. You have done all the work but those opportunities can be hard to find and possibly it was because you got first refusal and I think a gesture to show your appreciated for that would be nice and right !

Family first !

Original poster
notdawn · 25/10/2020 11:29

Also has my husband made the point - she took none of the risk.

If planning hadn’t had been granted we would have spent a substantial sum on planning and architecture - and left with a house we overpaid for.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 25/10/2020 11:34

Your sister is probably forgetting you had to but and pay for the next door house all this time.... pay 2nd owner tax, on your DH earnings he will have paid tax, NI and so on.

Yes you need to explain to her about the risk, how would she feel if you had to sell on her house at a loss?

Until the new builds are actually sold and completed you are still carrying risk...

Are any still unsold? I would gently explain that until the last one is actually sold and money in the bank you haven't made any actual money all you are doing is carrying a risk of loss...

HIITPrincess · 25/10/2020 11:35

Tell her she can pay you back all of the money you paid for her house, then she can have a share of the profit instead, minus a salary for your husband and you who have actually put the work in.

Would she be so keen then?

Neron · 25/10/2020 11:35

You clearly can't see the issue and why she would be struggling with this.

Original poster
notdawn · 25/10/2020 11:36

None are sold - they don’t go on the market until this week.

OP posts:
Crimblecrumble1990 · 25/10/2020 11:46

It's jealousy I'm afraid. Always the case when money is involved.

Original poster
notdawn · 25/10/2020 11:47

@Neron

You clearly can't see the issue and why she would be struggling with this.
I do see it - but the fact remains is paying the house was the best thing for her.
OP posts:
Dreading2020sSeasonFinale · 25/10/2020 11:52

The only thing you need to give your sister is a little sympathy as she's hurting from the divorce. That's it.

I once sold my beloved car because I was sick of trying to scrape money together for another repair (expected at its age) and wanted something newer. My dad bought it for what it was worth. He did the repairs himself at his cost and part exchanged it for a good chunk off a real nice Mercedes. I am not owed anything more than what he paid me and what I agreed to.

OP your DSis is being unreasonable. You did her the favour. She is investing NOTHING in your development. Nothing at all. She was paid slightly over the odds, had minimal fees thanks to not needing agents and should be bloody happy with that.

Divorces can make people unreasonably bitter and I think this is a part of that so just try to be nice when you tell her the truth of it. She made extra money, she's entitled to no more from your hard work and financial investments than she is a chunk of your monthly wages!

Bluegrass · 25/10/2020 11:52

I think half your problem is going around with this narrative in your head that you overpaid, so you (and your husband) are probably already giving out vibes that you treated her to free money out of the goodness of your hearts (and yet are still able to make a healthy profit on the deal).

The reality is you paid a valuation given by an estate agent for a property you’d had your eye on for ages because you wanted to profit from the redevelopment.

You can’t compare what you paid to what a residential purchaser would’ve paid because to you that property was unique, you needed it for redevelopment whereas an ordinary purchaser could easily look at similar properties elsewhere that would suit them just as well. We’ve sold land before to a developer who needed it for access and it completely changes the nature of the valuation.

You can’t treat this as if it was a normal arms length transaction - it wasn’t. Maybe if she was a stranger she’d have accepted less, but maybe if you were a stranger she’d have made you pay more.

You won’t ever know - so it is pointless to maintain the story that you overpaid her for it.

Wildflower219 · 25/10/2020 11:55

She is being unreasonable if a private developer had of bought her house and made flats she wouldn't be saying all this. I think she is just envious she is going through divorce and you and your partner obviously have a successful business. She may be worried about money and how much she will end up with and this is her way of saying it. I'd just let her know she's your sister and you will always be there for her if she needs your help but enough of this money talk it's a business and you don't question her on how much income she has or savings etc. Do not feel obliged to give her something from the sale you shouldn't and don't need to. I always said if I won the lottery I'd give something to my sisters so they struggle a bit less but this is different this is business and any profit will be for future projects paying fees for staff/workers etc.

Tiersforfears · 25/10/2020 11:57

If she sold it to strangers and they did what you w done would she keep banging on about it? No? You didn’t do anything wrong. Ignore her.

wizzbangfizz · 25/10/2020 11:58

I don't think yabu. If this was my sister I would say look your clearly have an issue, what is it? We won't make anything like the money you are saying we will but what is this really about?

AhoyMeFarties · 25/10/2020 12:01

You had the skill set to do this. You took the risk. It's bloody hard work too.
I appreciate that she had an emotional attachment to the old house but this is a new venture
Either ask her outright or keep changing the subject

Original poster
notdawn · 25/10/2020 12:02

I’m going to speak with her today.

OP posts:
user1471538283 · 25/10/2020 12:04

If you paid her the market value or more and she accepted it that's it. We had family expecting one of our houses cheaper because they were family! She is jealous. Her husband has gone and she thinks you will make money off her. I wouldn't give her anymore but I would explain that this could have happened whoever she sold to.

ApolloandDaphne · 25/10/2020 12:06

It sounds like she hasn't really moved on from the need to sell the house and her divorce and is using this to deflect her feelings.

dontdisturbmenow · 25/10/2020 12:11

I mean she wanted to sell her house and we gave her asking price?
Did she though? If she could have bought her ex husband out, wouldn't she have opted to stay there?

All she is saying is that you've benefitted from her misfortune. It doesn't mean you did wrong, she is only pointing that it if wasn't for her going through bad times, you wouldn't be in the position you are now in.

Cassilis · 25/10/2020 12:20

Sometimes people feel entitled to their siblings’ money.

My sisters and brothers are like this, for some reason they have decided it’s my role in the family to pay for all meals out, buy expensive presents, give regular cash injections. When I started to say no, I got the cold shoulder. We’re LC now.