To think that Mark Drakeford is a power mad dictator?

[LittleLapwing]

Half the shops covered in plastic. Can’t buy clothes, duvets, books, DVDs, tins but not tin openers.
All the Halloween and bonfire night stuff that’s just been stocked is behind a cordon. Presumably now destined for landfill.

Autumn half term after a shitty year and I can’t even do a few seasonal treats for the kids.

AIBU to think that Mark Drakeford is a power mad dictator, and that his ridiculous game of Covid oneupmanship with Nicola and Boris needs to stop!?

The fact that you can rant about him freely on Mumsnet means he’s probably not a power mad dictator. That kind of rhetoric is inflammatory and unhelpful.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4063272-To-ask-how-you-came-to-support-Welsh-independence

Seems Drakeford looking like a good example of sensible decision making at the moment - how many cases has England had today?
nation.cymru/news/switzerland-and-germany-point-to-wales-firebreak-lockdown-as-an-example-to-follow/

Notice and time to prepare is great if you’re well off. You can afford to bulk buy/pay for delivery/pay higher prices. Notice is not so helpful if you’re on a tight budget.

@JamRolyPolyAnyone

Since then we’ve ordered a new pan from Amazon and it’s due today...but in the meantime, I’ve struggled to cook and given up a few times opting to order shit instead. I can’t believe cookware, which can break at any given time has been deemed non-essential. Welsh Government are as mad as a box of frogs and not only will this lockdown not work, it’s going to make life so much harder for many many people

Why are you ordering from Amazon? Argos is open. Most stores can sell you items as long as you pay for them and then collect, either through click and collect or online delivery. It’s to prevent people browsing in shops and spreading the virus. In exactly the same way as we cannot sit around in cafes but we can collect take aways from cafes.

Some people are totally missing the point about the reason the firebreak is needed.

If you decide to buy from a mega tax avoiding company you can hardly blame Drakeford for your choice. There are plenty of alternatives open to you.

Due to a short notice shift today, I was unable to buy bread from my local bakery at the time it was open, so I decided to make some. Having not made bread for many years, I didn't own a loaf tin. With the local independent department store (plus any other independent kitchenware stores) shut, my only option was a supermarket. Therefore when I was on a break at work in Chester early this morning, I got one from the Tesco there. So instead of a North Wales business getting my custom, my money had to go to a chain instead.

I am still waiting to see the study which claims that shops are a major infection point. Please provide evidence justifying their closure compared with a more selective and targeted lockdown.

"The president said that under the new rules, people would need to fill in a form to justify leaving their homes,"

The president of France has announced a national lockdown, people are only allowed to leave their houses for essential shopping, work reasons or medical.

Is Macron also a power mad dictator or does that only apply to England's playground?

@Mamimawr

"The president said that under the new rules, people would need to fill in a form to justify leaving their homes,"

The president of France has announced a national lockdown, people are only allowed to leave their houses for essential shopping, work reasons or medical.

Is Macron also a power mad dictator or does that only apply to England's playground?

Presumably these measures are in place to fight the virus.

Rather than the ridiculous ‘you can go to the supermarket but only the aisles I say you can’ MD rules, which were in place ONLY to ‘make it fair.’ He said it.
It was only after the backlash that they tagged on the ‘and to reduce browsing time.’

I don’t like having my freedoms taken away even when there’s a good reason. But you do it, don’t you, because there’s a clear need.
But MD slipped dangerously close to the ‘because I think so’ when setting rules that curtail freedom. There was no scientific evidence or indication. Just MD’s own personal views, imposed as law.

That is what is worrying.

So please stop trying to steer this into ‘you’re all anti independence!’ or making it about the lockdown itself. It’s not. As has been reiterated several hundred times on this thread.

DdraigGoch

I am still waiting to see the study which claims that shops are a major infection point. Please provide evidence justifying their closure compared with a more selective and targeted lockdown

Do you live under a rock?

I couldn’t care less where the PP got her pan from. The fact she bought it from Amazon and had to wait for delivery is hardly Mark Drakeford’s fault. The fact that you bought a loaf tin from a supermarket just goes to prove non essential items can be bought from supermarkets doesn’t it?

If you cannot see why one person asking for a specific item poses less of a threat to people spreading Covid than everyone and his uncle and mother blocking the aisles as they browse non essential items that they may, or may not purchase for Christmas, while their kids wander around the store, then you need to educate yourself.

I couldn’t care less where the PP got her pan from. The fact she bought it from Amazon and had to wait for delivery is hardly Mark Drakeford’s fault.

Well it is really, that’s kind of the whole reason she had to buy it online and therefore brought it up.

The fact that you bought a loaf tin from a supermarket just goes to prove non essential items can be bought from supermarkets doesn’t it?

Yeah. In Chester. In England 🤦🏻‍♀️😂

you need to educate yourself

This phrase has got to be one of the worst things to come out of our current era......

Yeah. In Chester. In England

I bought an iron in a supermarket in Wales yesterday 🤷🏻‍♀️ Your point is?

@JamRolyPolyAnyone

DdraigGoch

I am still waiting to see the study which claims that shops are a major infection point. Please provide evidence justifying their closure compared with a more selective and targeted lockdown

Do you live under a rock?

I couldn’t care less where the PP got her pan from. The fact she bought it from Amazon and had to wait for delivery is hardly Mark Drakeford’s fault. The fact that you bought a loaf tin from a supermarket just goes to prove non essential items can be bought from supermarkets doesn’t it?

If you cannot see why one person asking for a specific item poses less of a threat to people spreading Covid than everyone and his uncle and mother blocking the aisles as they browse non essential items that they may, or may not purchase for Christmas, while their kids wander around the store, then you need to educate yourself.

A supermarket in England which I was only able to access because I had a break in my shift there.

And you still haven't provided evidence that shops are responsible for any outbreaks. You generally need to be in close proximity to someone for at least fifteen minutes to stand a high chance of infection.

@JamRolyPolyAnyone

Yeah. In Chester. In England

I bought an iron in a supermarket in Wales yesterday 🤷🏻‍♀️ Your point is?

I'd have loved to have bought it from one of the many independent stores in my local town rather than a supermarket. But they're unnecessarily closed so I couldn't do that. Even if they were available from a Welsh supermarket, I'd have preferred to have gone to an independent shop.

@LittleLapwing

you need to educate yourself

This phrase has got to be one of the worst things to come out of our current era......

I agree, and it's always used by those sanctimonious types who haven't a clue what they're talking about and are trying to deflect.

I agree, and it's always used by those sanctimonious types who haven't a clue what they're talking about and are trying to deflect

Says the person who just described the Senedd as being “By Cardiff”. The Senedd is in Cardiff 🙈

For the record Westminster is IN London too 🙄

I'd have loved to have bought it from one of the many independent stores in my local town rather than a supermarket. But they're unnecessarily closed so I couldn't do that. Even if they were available from a Welsh supermarket, I'd have preferred to have gone to an independent shop

Yeah wouldn’t we all? Still the point is that non essentials can be bought in supermarkets in Wales despite English people (and you!) believing they can’t because their only source of info, re Wales firebreak, seems to be FB posts from Billy Liar.

DdraigGoch You need someone to spell out why people gathering in crowds presents a covid risk to our already overstretched health service. Maybe if one of your relatives need to be hospitalised but has no other option than to share a ward with covid patients you may understand. But I guess it could take some time for it to sink in....

There is hardly any point in engaging with

1. A Welsh person who cannot (or will not) accept that Covid is a risk to lives and our Health Service. Who doesn’t have the capacity to understand lots of people in one area will do nothing to stop the spread. But I guess you think if someone isn’t lying in a hospital bed they don’t have Covid? Do you understand that the stranger you are happy to stand next to (probably without masks) in an enclosed area, as you browse through stuff you don’t need immediately, may have Covid but is asymptomatic - but can pass it on to you? Even if you are not badly affected you can then pass it on to others who could die. Are you really that dense? Or do you not care about anybody else? Why do you think these measures have been put in place since March? For the hell of it??

And

1. Someone who does not live in Wales, has, obviously, no idea about restrictions in Wales, and the reason behind them. They believe they can get on with preventing the spread of coronavirus by doing exactly what they want, when they want - because that bumbling fart leading them doesn’t give a rats arse whether his people are affected by Covid or not.

Anyway I’m due on shift now. I hope I don’t have to explain to too many families, again tonight, why their seriously sick relative cannot be admitted into their local hospital.

Says the person who just described the Senedd as being “By Cardiff”. The Senedd is in Cardiff 🙈

For the record Westminster is IN London too 🙄
by
preposition
1. identifying the agent performing an action.
Everyone complains about being governed "by London" or "by Brussels" all of the time. I can likewise complain about being governed by Cardiff.

DdraigGoch You need someone to spell out why people gathering in crowds presents a covid risk to our already overstretched health service.
Who said anything about crowds? I haven't been in a crowded shop since before the pandemic. Every shop I know of has put in controls on the number of people admitted at a time. If you cannot tell the difference between a quiet bookshop and Cheltenham Festival then I suggest that you get your white stick tested.

Again, please provide the evidence that shops (rather than pubs, schools, care homes, student halls or private dwellings) are the cause of the outbreaks.

Again, please provide the evidence that shops (rather than pubs, schools, care homes, student halls or private dwellings) are the cause of the outbreaks

FFS give it up. You’re embarrassing yourself

I’ve just read your post about the WG being by Cardiff too 😂😂😂 Bonkers!

There is hardly any point in engaging

.....with nationalists when they’re on one. Nothing but total capitulation will do 👎

then I suggest that you get your white stick tested

Nice bit of casual ableism, there.

@Mamimawr

"The president said that under the new rules, people would need to fill in a form to justify leaving their homes,"

The president of France has announced a national lockdown, people are only allowed to leave their houses for essential shopping, work reasons or medical.

Is Macron also a power mad dictator or does that only apply to England's playground?

For the last time, nobody thinks the lockdown is the problem here. Have you heard anyone moaning about the restrictions in Ireland and Northern Ireland?

Answer: no.

The issue was the stupid policy to prevent people buying any item they choose from a shop which is allowed to be open and leaving it to poorly paid and trained shop staff to police. Which does nothing to protect human health.

As for Macron's idea, well that's over the top as well. And again, how does it help? I want to go out, so I'll write out the bit of paper. Big deal. I am sure people in France are quite adept at making stuff up if they want to go out not strictly in accordance with the rules as they had this during their first lockdown too, it's not a new thing.

Not sure why it's embarrassing to ask for evidence that shopping is a main transmission risk for the virus. I would have thought educational establishments, care homes/hospitals and private parties were the main risk factors.

@SilverBangle

Again, please provide the evidence that shops (rather than pubs, schools, care homes, student halls or private dwellings) are the cause of the outbreaks

FFS give it up. You’re embarrassing yourself

I’ve just read your post about the WG being by Cardiff too 😂😂😂 Bonkers!

I'm still waiting for the evidence that shops are high risk. Around the UK track and trace have specifically identified a variety of sources for outbreaks. These have included pubs, flights (or the two combined where failure to quarantine has happened), house parties, people "popping in" to each other's homes, flights, schools etc. I haven't seen one outbreak blamed on shops.

Prove me wrong.

All of the shops local to me have limits posted outside on how many customers are allowed in to maintain social distancing. These limits have been well followed here. Supermarkets have had people stationed in the entrance counting people in and out. Masks are compulsory (unless exempt) and I've seen few people wearing them improperly in the shops I frequent. It would have helped of course if Drakeford had made masks mandatory seven weeks earlier, back when England did but that minor detail contradicts your narrative of Drakeford being proactive and following the science. Obviously I cannot talk for all areas, but in my area (where cases are low anyway, eighth percentile) compliance has been good. I see no reason that Pembrokeshire should be treated the same as Merthyr when the difference in case rates is a factor of 12.

As for your remark about governance, people in North Wales have far more to do (employment, education, leisure-wise) with Liverpool than with Cardiff so does it seem so strange to you that we find the capital so remote? If you were to do a survey on our trains you would find more people travelling to Dublin than to Cardiff (indeed, Dublin is closer).

The North was not in favour of devolution and yes Cardiff feels very remote. I can be in Liverpool within 90 minutes and in fact in provides local healthcare in some specialties. It takes me 4 hours to get to Cardiff and it’s actually faster to cross into England and use the M5.

The economy and culture is different up here and it’s not a Labour area (Plaid or Tory) so Drakeford doesn’t think he needs to take our economy and well being into account. I don’t know anyone up here who supports his closure of small shops and my family in the south don’t know anyone either. In fact they find him a laughing stock.

licensing-lawyer.co.uk/coronavirus-restrictions-wales/?fbclid=IwAR0TwnhA44ACXA17TshENAFt871zJ1GiN0xdmIZWi8OmnzZhmTEzphxHzn0

This is a great link from a top legal brain showing how Drakeford has gone much further than Welsh legislation has permitted.

Indeed. This is ludicrous stuff and I can't believe the supermarkets did not just tell him to get lost.

It is also counter-productive because when people see this nonsense they are going to lose faith in the rules as a whole and stop following them which is really not what we want...

so does it seem so strange to you that we find the capital so remote

You probably find the capital as remote as I find Machynleth. I didn’t find that strange. I find it strange that you claim to be Welsh but didn’t know the Welsh Govt buildings are in Cardiff - you know, your Capital. Where did you think it was?

The Covid has spread through all areas. Just because you haven’t had any Covid cases from supermarkets doesn’t mean no areas have. You have a one in, one out system. Well bully for you. So do most. Can you not see that by people taking their time and browsing non essential items - without masks on in my area, yakking on their phones, barging past people, reaching over people - queues are forming outside in the pissing down rain? But “I’m ok Jack. If I want to look at ideas for Christmas I will. Fuck everyone else”.

You are extremely lucky that Drakeford put his foot down with BJ. Boris was happy for people from his High Tier areas to holiday in Wales, whilst most of Wales couldn’t leave their County. Just think you could now have high cases of Covid. But I’m sure you won’t acknowledge that MJ is doing his utmost to keep everyone safe.

Nobody knows where the recent outbreak has stemmed from, as you well know, except that pubs, clubs, restaurants, cafes, house parties, schools, Colleges, Uni parties, plane loads of people who simply had to fly on holiday and didn’t bother isolating when they arrived home, and family/friends get togethers have all contributed. Hence why they are talking about a rule of 6 over Christmas. You could be standing browsing your Christmas presents in amongst more than 6 people. Stores are open for click and collect so someone can go in, pick up their prepaid item and leave instead of hanging around to pay and again to wait for their item amongst lots of other people. Why can you not accept that CV does not discriminate and that MD has covered all options to reduce the spread. Do you think he is wrong? Would you prefer an everybody do what you like approach?